Get Promoted in 2025 (with Stacy Mayer)

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In this week’s episode of the podcast, I sit down with my brilliant friend and executive coach, Stacy Mayer, to unpack exactly what it takes to get promoted in 2025. If you’re dreaming about that next leadership role, even with today’s job market feeling messy - you need to hear this. We talk candidly about the real strategies that get women into the C-suite, the power of second-degree connections, and why interviews are more about energy and authenticity than ever before. Oh, and the idea of turning your job search into play? Game-changer. You’ll walk away feeling empowered, strategic, and 100% ready to own your career. 

Topics in this episode:

  • Why 2025 is still a great time to go after your dream job 

  • Interviewing strategies that actually work (and feel good) 

  • The myth of job hunting through LinkedIn and Indeed 

  • How women can show up powerfully and playfully 

  • The truth about promotions and second-degree connections

Show Notes & References:

Connect with Stacy:

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Transcript

Intro

Oh, working moms, you are going to want to listen to this interview. I have brought on my friend and executive coach, Stacy Mayer. She has been on this podcast before. She is someone that helps women get promoted. She helps women find that next job that they want to be in to like, really up level their career. And so she has all of the tips and the strategies on what it takes to really move your career upward and forward and help women get to those director level jobs, VP jobs, C suite jobs. And so she is giving us so much wisdom here today on the landscape of what it takes right now in 2025 to get yourself promoted. We talk about the energy that you need to be in order to get promoted.

We get into some of the nitty gritty on exactly how you actually need to get promoted and what it takes to do that. This is going to be an interview that you are not going to want to miss. I can't wait for you to listen. So let's get to it.

Welcome to the Ambitious and Balanced Working Moms Podcast, your go to resource for integrating your career ambitions with life as a mom. I'm distilling down thousands of coaching conversations I've had with working moms just like you, along with my own personal experience as a mom of two and sharing the most effective tools and strategies to help you quickly feel calm, confident, and in control of your ambitious working mom life. You ready? Let's get to it.

Annual Career Growth Conversation with Stacy Mayer

Rebecca: Hello. Hello, ambitious working moms. I'm excited. I have my friend and executive coach Stacy Mayer here. Say hi, Stacy.

Stacy: Hello.

Rebecca: Stacy is a good friend of mine. She's been on the podcast a couple of times and I told her recently, I was like, we gotta schedule that annual podcast interview. I think maybe we didn't do it in the very first year that I had the podcast—because I started it in March. But every year since then, we have had a conversation around what it takes to get promoted and to really go after your career in this year. And because you are all about that. And so I'm so excited to have our annual podcast talk.

Why We Talk Promotion Every Year

Stacy: Yeah. And it's so important because I talk about intention as a huge part of it. And when we're all busy working and all the different priorities, even the fact that you have that touch point once a year to say, hey, what's going on with your promotion? Right ahead of time—not based on what your boss says.

So, yes, there is definitely a reason that we do this once a year. I love it.

Rebecca: Yeah, I love it. I love it. So tell us again who you are, just so everybody knows who you are, what you do, a little bit about yourself. You got two kiddos like me. So tell us a little bit.

Meet Stacy Mayer, Author of Promotions Made Easy

Stacy: Awesome. Well, I am a bestselling author of Promotions Made Easy: A Step-by-Step Guide to the Executive Suite. I also have my own podcast, Women Changing Leadership.

And essentially what I do is I help women get into higher level leadership positions on their terms. I want to change the face of the leadership table. I want more women in positions of power, influence, and to really get recognized.

I used a lot of times the phrase "the recognition that they deserve," but sometimes that can be very frustrating. It's like, I deserve it, right? But it's that softer, more beautiful place that says, why not me? And that's the world that we're creating over here.

Rebecca: I love it. I love it.

Career Growth in 2025: A Different Landscape

Rebecca: And I just really want to talk about what it takes to move your career forward in 2025. Man, we've had a regime change at the top here in this country, and it feels like a different landscape. And maybe it is, maybe it's not.

But I would love to hear, you know, to just start our time—as women think about maybe this is the year that they go for that promotion or they go for some shift in their career and mobility up in some way. What are you seeing the landscape to be for women out there right now?

Why Interview Strategy Matters in 2025

Stacy: Well, the biggest thing that I'm talking about a lot more publicly—because it's necessary for people to know that I can actually help them—is with interview strategies.

So I've been doing promotion strategies since day one. And then, a lot of my business was foundationally one-on-one coaching. So that's very private, right? That’s the work that I do with the client itself.

But then, you know, you also have the marketing side and what you're talking about. And obviously, my book is to help women get promoted.

And a lot of the work that we were doing behind the scenes was always on interviewing, right? So whether they were interviewing internally or they were interviewing externally, it was happening for them all the time.

Realization in 2024: Women Need Interview Support

Stacy: Towards the end of 2024, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm helping so many women get interviews—actually get the interview, and then get the offer—and then get the offer of their dreams.

Why am I not telling more people about this? Like, why am I keeping this to myself? It's not just about promotions.

Coaching and Investment Realities

Stacy: And I had—you know, I mean, one-on-one coaching is a significant investment, both financially and time-wise and emotionally and all of these things.

And I was like, wait a second—60% of my clients are actually unemployed right now. That has never happened, right?

The Shift in Client Demographics

Stacy: So most of the women that I worked with prior to 2024 were in jobs, looking for other jobs or promotions, right? And they’re willing to invest in coaching and to say, hey, even though…

And actually part of the thing is, is that these women have set themselves up to be financially resourced. So they have a six-month severance or they have saved, and they know that they have a little bit of space.

And so they’re like, okay, I’m going to do this right this time. Right?

And so, in terms of trends—this is a horrible thing to say—there’s a lot more unemployed humans on this planet right now.

And specifically, what I’m most proud of is that even though there are a lot of unemployed people, there are also people within that who say, not only could this have happened for a reason—glass is half full—but I can actually turn it into something better, and I can create a better opportunity for myself and my next role.

So that’s one thing. And then, you know, I’m happy to talk—there’s like another part of that in terms of the strategy to get jobs as a result of that. But I’ll pause there, see if you have any thought.

Competition for Jobs vs. Creating Possibilities

Rebecca: Yeah, because what I'm hearing you say in the landscape is like, yeah, there are more people unemployed. And when there are more people unemployed, that means there are more people searching for the same jobs, right? On the same you in some way.

And so that is the landscape of where we're at. And you're also saying at the same time, lots of people are getting their dream jobs right now.

And we, you know, as coaches—I know that you talk with your clients, I talk with my clients a lot about—you know, the circumstances never dictate your possibilities in your life. Right?

And we never want to kind of give control to our circumstances. We never want the idea that unemployment is higher than it has been in a long time or that, you know, however many hundreds of people are going for the same job to be the circumstance that tells you not to go for it.

Women Are Landing Dream Roles, But Staying Silent

Stacy: Right, right. Yeah. Well, and I was just reflecting on this idea of no one talks about it. And I think that I wasn't talking about the interview process before, right?

And then I had a woman who recently—so, I mean, we worked for a year. So let me tell you her story. She was a founder at this company, right? Came in, she was like number six employee or whatever. New leadership happened about a year later. And then she just completely got demoted. They hired like 100 people. That company grew, her position got pushed down—very, very frustrating path for her.

So at the time that she hired me, this is not what I'm talking about, unemployment, right? This is just like the traditional promotion path that a lot of women find themselves in. They’re just like, wait, I've had six bosses in five years. This sucks. Right? So we've been working on that for a while, trying to get her out of this director level role, which essentially she came in as a founder and now she was being told what to do all the time.

Rebecca: Demoted on some level.

Stacy: Yeah, exactly. And so we had been thinking about and interviewing, and then she got laid off.

And so I had three women on—what was it? I think the first day back to work in January was like January 6th. Three women texted me and said they were laid off that day. And she was one of them.

She had been interviewing already and kind of thinking about it, but she was like, more importantly, like, I don't have a job. So I'm not saying, oh, I feel good about this, but I know how to get one. So I've been working with you, we've been thinking about it. I know what I need to do to get this job.

And so the reason I'm sharing this story with you though is because she is now the Chief Business Development Officer at an organization. I think she started on March 15. So this is huge.

She deserves it, she's ready for it. She is set up for this. She always wanted to be in the C-suite. And actually we were talking about her first 90 days and she was like, Stacy, I've done this job before. It's not even. And not the title, but the qualities of it. And she was like, I know how to do this.

And so when we say that women are getting their dream roles, it's not hypothetical. But why would… and I don't even think she has changed anything on LinkedIn. Like, she got some flowers for me or something. But like, nobody knows. Why? Because as women it's embarrassing.

Like, why would she be like, guess what? I got my dream role. And so if I'm not saying it, if you're not saying it, Rebecca, if we're not saying that this is possible, then add onto it this layer of frustration—because we're all hiding. So even the people who are getting their dream role are hiding.

Rebecca: Yeah, yeah. They tote. They don't want to promote it. They don't want to feel like… They don't wanna make anybody else feel bad. You know, they don't want… Yeah, all the things. Totally.

You said something though, that I think was—I wrote it down immediately, because I think this is where it's at. She was let go and then she said to herself, she said it to you, it sounds like, but she said it to herself: I know how to get a job.

Stacy: Yeah.

The Power of Knowing You Can Get a Job

Rebecca: That is the most empowering, I think, feeling and thought to have in a moment like that. Right. To not be a victim of circumstance, to not feel like you don't have options, but to say, I actually know what to do and I can go as soon as I want a job. It's like a light switch. I'm gonna go get the job because I know how to get the job.

Like, knowing how to do that is really important. And you're talking about something that I think is a piece of the how. Because obviously you help women get promoted. You know, you help people get these jobs. So you teach the how on some level or you kind of walk them through the how on some level.

But it sounds like a really important part of the how is the way you interview. You said that a couple times. And I wonder if the way people interview is like a landscape shift that's happening as well. And like, the importance of that and like interviewing today in 2025 is different than interviewing even last year or the year before that. And I'm curious your thoughts on that.

Interview Strategies Built on Decades of Proven Success

Stacy: Yeah. So one of the things that, in terms of the promotion path, that I'll remind people of is like, so they'll be like, oh, it's different now, or it's different for women. And when I first started and created my five-step process, I actually took it from successful white men who'd been doing it since the 80s.

Right. So like, the blueprint is there. If there are statistics for the last 20, 30 years that most of our job opportunities happen through second-degree connections. This is very different mentality than what we think, which is first-degree connections. Happy to share that with your audience, what I mean by that.

But this is actually very known—that most actual opportunities happen through second-degree connections. It has been going on forever. But now what we have compounded to it is fear.

How Fear Has Changed the Job Search in 2025

Stacy: And so this fear is very different than the fear that we experienced collectively in 2020, which was like everybody was going through it, everybody was taking a pause, everybody was shifting. But now it doesn't necessarily feel like everybody is.

So you'll have this quiet woman who's getting promoted, but she's being very quiet. And then you have a neighbor down the street that you hear got let go. But then you might also have that couple that now they're both working from home and they're spending a lot more time with their family and they have all this freedom, both financially and emotionally, and they're doing really well.

And it's like everybody is going through a very unique circumstance. And so it doesn't feel like we have this collective hold of "everybody's going through the crap." So you do feel very isolated and fearful.

And the first thing that we do when we're fearful is something that is—I use this term like being in the weeds a lot. But yeah, you grasp. Right. What do we grab to? What do we cling to? Indeed. The job search site.

The Doom Scroll of Job Searching

Stacy: I am telling you, I was…

Rebecca: Like, wait a second.

Stacy: Indeed. Indeed.com. LinkedIn. Oh my God. And so what do we do? We scroll, right? Ah. It's like we scroll and we look at the number of applicants and then we apply and then we look at how 3,000 people applied within the last hour. And then we scroll.

Right. So we're clinging, we're scared, we're very nervous.

Rebecca: Oh my gosh. My whole body just went to like, despair. If that was me looking for a job, I would feel so defeated by that experience. If that was my job searching experience. Wow. I. Wow. Okay. So my whole body just went. I would.

Why Relationships Still Win Over Job Boards

Stacy: So when we talk about technology and things like Instagram and Facebook being thrown at us and things like that, and a lot of women have created tools so that they don't get sucked into this.

I think that's actually where the difference is. So interview strategies have always been about, in my opinion, relationships. Right. You get the job of your dreams—especially if it's a skip-level or a next-level promotion type job opportunity—you're gonna get it because you know somebody.

Those VP-level roles are all created at the president's club. When I talk about it, it's like the people we know at the golf course, at the friend of the friend of the friend. Right. And so that's been going on for decades.

But now we have fear on top of it. And then we're also being inundated with social media platforms and distractions that are telling us that this is going to be really, really hard.

Rebecca: Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. What you're saying is if you want the next level job, don't go to Indeed.

How to Use Job Boards as Practice, Not Proof

Stacy: Or let me tell you this, do both. And here's what I mean. So if you don't have your assets in order—like your resume, your LinkedIn profile, like these things are not up to date, which happens for a lot of women especially who've been at their company very loyally for 25 years and then they got laid off.

Rebecca: Ah.

Stacy: Like I said, this one woman who was laid off, she was a founder. So there's no discrimination in the layoffs, right? They're laying off everybody.

So especially if you haven't updated these things in a while, you need to be very well practiced at submitting a resume. This sounds so lame, but so many people. They'll either go all in—scroll, doom and gloom—or they'll avoid it, right?

So they say, I know that it doesn't happen through LinkedIn, so I'm not gonna do anything. And their resume looks terrible.

And so what I do is I use it as a practice. So I think of these job applications as information. It's almost like you're practicing, you’re experimenting through the application process.

And in the meantime, last week you submitted 10 applications to jobs. So the technical thing is you do it, but what you're looking for is opportunities to see what companies are hiring. You're seeing what the hiring manager's names are. Are those keywords in your resumes?

It's much more experimental, much more playful while you're reaching out to those same folks and having conversations or your connections and you're having real—and I say face to face, but I mean like on Zoom—conversations with people.

And so if you can look at the job search process on these traditional platforms as play, then you're not going to have that level of fear and despair.

Because it is really important when that executive that you've been afraid to reach out to—they'll do you a favor in a heartbeat.

Like I have this woman that's been milking her Boy Scouts, like all the parents, because she lives here in the Silicon Valley too. And these are very, she's like down in Palo Alto, very influential people, right? She's like, I know a lot of important people. I'm like, have you asked them that? She's like, no, I got to get my stuff together. I'm like, well, let's do that yesterday, get it done. Because we got to start opening these doors for ourselves.

So that's something to think about. Like, are you avoiding it entirely? And maybe there's a different approach to it. Because it's not the approach that says Indeed is going to give me the job, but Indeed is going to help me get my stuff together so that then I get the puzzle.

Rebecca: For sure.

Stacy: Yeah, exactly.

Bringing Play Into the Job Search

Rebecca: Yeah, exactly. You used the word that I think is the opposite of how people think of going after a new job, which is play.

Stacy: Playful. Yeah.

Rebecca: And yet I have no doubt, because I know you, you make the process playful. Because why are, you know, why else are we live in life if we're not gonna enjoy a piece of it?

But that is—there's a different energy when you approach, you know, what tends to be heavy or hard circumstances as being playful, as being fun, as being like, I can try some things, as being having some levity to it and kind of experimenting a little bit.

I wonder what happens when I do it this way or when I say it this way or when I connect with somebody this way. You know, like, there's a different energy about that that puts you in the driver's seat of that. And what you really are talking a lot about is ownership.

It's like, don't give Indeed, don't give LinkedIn, like ownership over your job search. Like, totally. It's for you. Be in charge of this.

So you've hinted at this idea that jobs really don't come from first connections, they come from second. So why don't you clear that up for us?

Authentic Power and Playfulness in Interviews

Stacy: Tell us what specifically by that.

Rebecca: I mean, I think I know, but, you know, I want to.

Stacy: I just had this image when you said playful too, because I think that our definition of playful is, you know, unprofessional, like maybe authentic, but it doesn't actually get the job.

I was sort of thinking about my sassy daughter when she's sassy, right? When she says the thing. Like, my daughter is very good at being very clear and being like, no. And sometimes you're like, oh, crap.

But I could look at that and be like, that is actually playful, right? And it has this sort of energy. And a lot of the women, when they're being playful and having success, it looks like what I would call authentic power.

So my daughter's being very clear, and she's like, no, I'm not gonna actually do that thing. And she's also powerful at the same time. And when we can show up like that in interviews, that can be very playful. Like, a lot of WTF attitude. I teach—I literally teach how to do WTF, right?

So if you can walk into interviews like, I have nothing to lose—even though you've been unemployed for six months—you will be miles ahead of the rest. And that can be very playful. Like, you can come back to me and be like, oh my God, I can't believe I said that. Right? And it works.

A Parenting Story of Authentic Power

Rebecca: The way you're describing that, it's like being outside power when you're playful. And I totally know what you're talking about with your daughter.

I've been having these moments lately where Lillian will be sassy to me. It was like on our walk today. Like, she runs hot, okay. I'm going on a side tangent here, but she runs hot.

Like, literally, I wear all the clothes, and she is, like, never wears clothes. You know, she's wearing the shorts and the T-shirt, and I'm bundled up. And I've gotten to the point where I've stopped—I don't make her put on anything at this point.

But today she was wearing a sweater. She took it off mid-walk to the school. And I'm like, Lillian. She was like, I just don't want it to be hot today. And I'm like, it's gonna be 62 and it's gonna rain. And she was like, ma, I am not like any other child. I run hot. And that's just me.

But I'm so sassy. And it was like, mom, I'm just different, okay? And it was like, okay, I gotcha.

It was very powerful and sassy at the same time. Right? And so I hear. I know what that voice is like. I know what that means to be in that kind of authentic power playfulness. So, so good. I love that.

Stacy: Yeah.

Why Second-Degree Connections Land Jobs

Rebecca: Okay, so second connections.

Stacy: Yeah. So, I think maybe some people think that jobs come through the traditional application process. So first, I'll acknowledge that. But I think if you really start to think about it, you're smarter than that. And you're like, I know it doesn't actually come through those applications.

So then I'm going to reach out to my first-degree connections. And so on LinkedIn, say I'll connect with a colleague that I used to work with or an old boss and I'll say, hey, I'm looking for a job. Or I notice that you have some job opportunities. Can you put in a referral? And things like that.

So those are actually the first-degree connections. And what happens is those people aren't typically the hiring managers. They're not the person who's doing the hiring. And so even at a large company, if they put in a referral for you, yes, that helps you stand out a little bit, but not very far.

So that's the first-degree connection. Wow. They did this really great thing. They put in a good word.

I had one client—they were actually walking her resume around being like, hire this woman or whatever. Like literally, it was like a piece of paper. Somebody actually did that. And they're like, yeah, they put my resume on their desk. Like, okay, great.

What I would like them to do though is I would like them to put the resume on the desk and say, can you have a 15-minute chat with her?

So what you're doing is you're using the first-degree connection to create a second-degree connection. And so the person who's actually hiring, the person who works at the company that you want to work for.

And so when we have these really powerful connections, we sort of just let them come and go and we just say, okay, that was it. They weren't hiring right now. That was. And it's like, well, but they know other people.

And I think part of our brain is saying, well, if they knew someone, they know I'm looking for a job. If they knew someone, then they would introduce me. And the answer is almost never.

And I always think about myself. I mean, do I infer sometimes? Not. I don't know. It's like I've got other things going on in my life and unless someone says, hey, can you send an introduction to this person? Then I'm like, oh, yeah, of course, sure. But I don't think about it, right. Automatically I'm not thinking about them all day long.

So you have to kind of tell me and prod me and assume that I want to genuinely help you. And so when we're thinking, how do I get to the second-degree connections, and that's the foundation of our job search, then we go into these first-degree connection calls a little bit differently.

Moving From First-Degree to Second-Degree Connections

Rebecca: Yeah, I love that. Yeah. And you're right. Of course we know that as we think about it, right. We know that what we're asking is our first degree connections to likely introduce us to somebody else.

But we don't think about like, so the path to a promotion is to move through the first degree and to get into the second, to have conversation with second, the second degree connections and to show up powerfully in those spaces and that like it actually that does shift in your mind as you think about it.

Stacy: Role is right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Don’t Be Afraid to Ask Friends for Help

Rebecca: And I.

Stacy: A lot of times we're so grateful for our friends and our first degree connections that we actually don't want to burn any bridges. And I'm sort of thinking, well, what kind of friend are they that you're constantly worried about upsetting them?

You know, most of these people that they're talking about are actual, actual friends. And really the super influential people that you're like, I think he would do anything for me, but I actually don't know him that well. Those actually are even better friends, better first degree connections, because that's how they got there.

If they're very influential, they understand this relationship and they understand that. And they appreciate clarity and they appreciate someone who can be more directive. And if they're going to be putting you up for a VP level role, they really want somebody who can be very clear and directive to them about their job search.

Recap: Taking Ownership of Your Career Path

Rebecca: Yeah. Yeah. So good. Okay. We've gotten into some nitty gritty. Let's recap. For a mom. We've gotten into some nitty gritty about what it takes to like what the landscape looks like and then some of the things that we have to be doing in order to be getting promoted, moving our advancing forward, taking ownership, understanding the path forward and recognizing that it takes a playful attitude.

It plays. It takes you knowing like that, you know how to get a job like this isn't confusing. it's pretty. It's like we've had generations and generations of people that have gotten jobs before us. Right. And so we know how we just need to step into that, step into that powerful place.

And so if we kind of like zero in on women right now and this is starting. Is what's starting to come up for me because I know you and I share a lot of similar vision and goals to see more women in leadership, more women representation at the top. You know, you do that through helping women get promoted and move their way up and get through all those barriers. I do it through helping women through the motherhood moment. Because that's also, a moment where we lose Women out of the. Out of the funnel of women up the top, you know, so forth. So as I start thinking about wanting more women at the top, and obviously we're re pre. We're preaching to women here that are listening to this podcast right now.

Stacy: Yeah.

Rebecca: What do they like? What's unique about being. Being a woman getting promoted right now in today and like, their path. Their path, up and remaining in leadership and getting up into the top.

Smarter, But Overlooked: The Female Leadership Challenge

Stacy: So what's unique about, like, why would it be cool to have more women in leadership?

Rebecca: No, I want to hear more. Like, if we were to talk about women, women in particular, like, what are they challenged with that you see, that they need to overcome in order to get there?

Stacy: Yeah, yeah, yeahuse. I was, I mean, when you first asked that, I was like, well, one typical problem that I hear for a lot of women, and maybe this will also speak to the challenge, is that they are definitely smarter than the people who are getting promoted around them, like, hands down.

And like, we can always see it. And we're just like, oh, my God, that guy is such a tool. I have a woman who. This guy who is her peer, who's clearly liked by her boss more than her. They're in the same band. They're in a band together.

She's like, Stacy how do I compete? I can't play an instrument. It's like, oh, my God.

So this reminder that know typically what will happen is as women will shut down because we'll be like, look, I can't play an instrument. I can't compete with this. I am smarter than him. But I'm just going to shut down because I don't want to play that game. I don't want to be a part of that.

Which makes a ton of sense. I understand. I don't want to be a part of that either. I don't want to play that game.

“Same, Same, But Better”: A Strategy for Women in Leadership

Stacy: But if we remember what we're fighting for is this idea that O, okay, I can not only bring my intelligence, but I also lead my team better. I have a different level of empathy and understanding and being able to bring everyone up together. So we're not going to just pick the people that we play on the bandid. We're going toa have a bigger perspective once we get to the top. So this is huge. Reminding women that they matter, that they belong in the C suite, that we need them.

And so O, okay, I get it, I get it, I get it. But how? And I have an approach that's called same, same, but better. So One of the challenges that we'll do when we. And actually, this was really funny, Rebecca. I said, my husband is Korean. And I said this approach, same, same, but better. And she's like, oh, my Korean mother says this all the time. And then it made me laugh. I was like, wait, does my Korean mother in law say this all the time? I don't know. I downloaded somewhere, but it works. But she was like, oh, yes.

So this idea of same, same, but better is that we skip from I am smarter than you, and that what I'm going to do is I'm going to show you how different I am. So either we recoil, we just say, I'm going to take myself out of the game, or we push on the difference. Right? And what I recommend is pushing on the same.

So not that we become same, so we don't lower our voice. I mean, these were like real techniques. The shoulder pads, how we dress, how we look. We could look like men or whatever, Sound like men, lead like men. No, not that, but the actual sameness. So without changing ourselves, there is a way that we make decisions exactly like our boss. There is a way that we solve problems that is exactly like the CEO, but we're not talking about it.

And some of it comes from we don't understand it, or we haven't seen it, or we don't really know. Some of my coaching is pulling that out of them and really showing them, you know, you've actually been doing this for a while. So not just like, I hit my numbers, but then why were you able to hit your numbers? And so then they're like, well, because the CEO gives us a directive and I follow instructions or whatever that might be. Okay, that's a big deal to tell somebody. Well, why would I tell them that the CEO told me what to do and like, well, no, tell people that. Repeat what the CEO said. Repeat how your ROI created the CEO's better results. Right? So that's the same same. And then there's always something that we do better than everybody else. And so I'll have clients that will say that they created some kind of better result. And this is something that the company's been working on for 10 years, never able to accomplish it.

And so then I'll go into, why were you able to accomplish it and nobody else did? And so then it's like the same same, which is like, well, the CEO tells me what to do and I did it. Well, you could say du, but nobody else was doing that. Nobody else was listening. Okay, so now I know how to be the same. I know how to listen. And then I took that into my own brain, my own unique thought process and turned it into a result. And so here, here you go.

And so when you ask this challenge, it's really understanding that over indexing with your difference first without the same, same, like, I'm so much smarter or, I'm going to go into an interview and talk about how great I am and I had all of these results and maybe even say nobody was able to do that. You have to root it in. I want to work with this woman. I want her to like, she seems like me. Right. I can have conversations with her first. So we're recreating that sort of like banned comradery, but just like that same sameness. It's like, look, I can play with you guys. And a lot of women really can. Like they want to be in the room with these men. Like they hold their own, they're amazing. But because they're over indexing on their difference, then they're actually isolating themselves even more.

Women Feel Pressure to Be “Equal But Better”

Rebecca: Oh, interesting, interesting. Because we as women have sort of, I mean, it's been indoctrinated into us that success for us as women comes when we're this. I mean, we have to be equal but better. Right.

And so in order, in order to really be successful, we have to showcase the betteress of us on some, on some level and over promote that. But you're saying what that actually does is it, it creates. People don't know if they can relate to you.

Why Old-School Leadership Advice Worked (But Doesn’t Fit Anymore)

Stacy: Yeah, exactly. And so then we get labeled as aggressive or like bulldog or whatever. And the other piece is, you know, when we talked at the beginning about that this has been happening for many, many decades.

When you look at like, I don't think that traditional women's leadership advice, old school 80s and 90s shoulder pads and stuff was written because it didn't work. I think it actually did work. I think it did work to contort ourselves and to be more like a man, like to actually change.

But it was rooted foundationally in change. Right. So change yourself to be more like them. And I'm saying you actually all are already like them already. And when you, Yeah, yeah, you just have to articulate it.

The Evolution of Women in Leadership: From Feminism to Alignment

Rebecca: Yeah. And I, this makes me think, if I zoom back out again and I think about more women at the top again and we talk about that decade story, I mean we're really, we're not, we're in a 60 year story. Right. We're not that far into the story.

And of course, it makes sense that when women decided into the feminist movement and post feminist movement to go after careers that were never given, they were never given the chance for before, it made sense that what they just did, what everybody else knew how to do, what the culture knew how to do to get a job, which was do it like a man. Right. And do it in the same way.

And now we're evolving to say that that's okay. That's a method that has worked. It doesn't feel very congruent with us as women and us as moms and us as just as human beings. And so now it's time to reinvent that in a way that feels really aligned with the human being that I want to be.

You know, so it's not. Which, I mean, I guess I say that because I sometimes I can get into the, like, you know, why kind of that feminist feel, of, you know, you know, screw theme. We don't want to be like that anymore. It's like, no, no, this was a natural evolution.

Of course that's what we were going to do when we were finally given the opportunity to take jobs that we were never given opportunities to do before. And it's what the generation of people in the C suite, what we saw them do, because we have barely had a generation of C suite women.

I mean, not only do we barely have them, but we've barely had a generation of them that have done it differently than men did it because they were the first ones to have the opportunity. Right.

And so we haven't had enough example, we haven't had enough time go by where we have a generation of C suite women that have chosen to do it differently and do it well in a way that feels really aligned with us as women.

I think there's some importance in, like, remembering the history of where we're at today and then being empowered to, like, choose a new path.

Stacy: Yeah, totally.

Moms in Leadership: The Reality of Promotion in 2025

Rebecca: So where'd we go from here? I don't know. We've, like, we've crossed. We've gone all over the place.

Stacy: I, love it.

Rebecca: But I do like talking about the women in particular and, and kind of the window or the insight that you have for women that are looking to get promoted if we even go one deeper and we say moms, since who is the focus of this particular podcast, moms like to think that their circumstances are different too. And just as we, as women think.

Stacy: Our circumstances, I think there's actual numbers, though, that they are different. Right. Like There's. I mean, there's no women with children. No penalized more, Right? Yeah.

Rebecca: No question. And so as you start to think about women in, sorry, Mom's getting promoted. What starts to come up for you as you think about that in 2025?

Lessons from Kids: Why Moms Deserve to Go for It

Stacy: Maybe listen to your kids. Like, I have a lot of children with, like, teenagers, because maybe. I don't know for sure, but, because I've been going for my career with little babies at home and stuff like that. But I'll have some women with teenagers who are finally, like, okay, I can figure out a way to have some space to go for my career.

And oftentimes especially the boys are like, mom, what are you talking about? Like, of course you should apply for this job. They will tell me this over and over and over again, especially the boys. Ah, like what? Or look at your daughters and say, would I want my daughter to back off on this? What I want?

And so having that, like, it really is profound to me that I had a woman who signed up for coaching, in her second round of coaching, while selling her house because she was going through a divorce and she had two young boys at home, and she signed up for coaching.

And so it's like, there is something about that level of intentionality and saying, me first. And I'm going to figure out a way to make this investment back. And whether that's through having a job that feels much more aligned or an opportunity that I get to really be in that leadership role, in that position.

So kind of knowing that you're worth it and that, I mean, these are reminders that sort of are like, why not me? Why can't I do this, too? And the answer is yes, of course. And it really does spill into other areas of our lives.

Mean for me personally, it's kind of been. Because it has to. So if I'm going to go, there's this great body of work called the Energy Project. And what the founder talks about is that if we want to do big things, then we have to refuel our tank in a really big way. Right?

Rebecca: Yeah, we have to have a bigger tank.

Leadership Growth Fuels Family Growth

Stacy: Yeah, exactly. And so whereas most of us kind of live in that middle, so we're like kind of do something and then kind of not.

And so this idea of putting ourself in this leadership role. And for me, it's like, as I continue to expand my business, I have to have more capacity to be with my children in a much more mindful, productive way. I cannot, like, it's like, I become this asset. I think more about myself and how I'm showing up for them and how I'm taking care of myself.

And did I shower and I put on makeup today so that I feel really good about myself? Am I exercising? Am I eating healthy? Because it's fueling my ability to be able to do this work that I want to do.

And so we have the ability to do both. And it doesn't have to feel like hustle or strain. And it can also—even just the idea of knowing that we're going for this big idea of growth and challenging ourselves—can lead to more growth and more like a positive challenge with our families.

So that is 100% possible. And it's actually been much more available to me. When I'm phoning it in at work, you know what I'm doing, I'm phoning it in with my family.

Career and Motherhood Are a Twofold Goal

Rebecca: Like almost always, I tell my clients that when you become a mom, the goal is twofold. It's not just about moving your career forward. It's about being the mom that you want to be and having the family life that you want to have.

And when one of them is failing, they're both failing because they're a twofold goal that they both have to move forward. It can't be either or. It's both always.

And so we have to. We have to show up at both spaces in the ways that we want to show up. Otherwise, we don't feel successful. You know, we feel like we're failing in life generally.

Yeah, I know we, we got to wrap it up here because it's at time. So thank you for all your wisdom here today. Can you tell once again, the listeners if they're interested in getting in touch with you or learning more about what you do? What should they do? How do they get in touch?

Where to Find Stacy Mayer’s Interview Strategies

Stacy: Well, definitely go to Women Changing Leadership podcast with Stacy Mayer. Follow me there.

And also I do have a downloadable free interview strategy guide. So if you go to stacymayer.com/interviewstrategy you can download that for free. And it will give you that step-by-step process that we're talking about so that you actually know how to find your next role.

Rebecca: I'm going to put that in the show notes too. So easy, easy ways to find all of that. So good.

Thank you for your time. Thank you for your expertise. Thanks for all your re putting out into the world. I just love it and I love these conversations, and I have a feeling we'll have another one in 2026.

Final Words for Working Moms

Stacy: Six sounds great. Thank you, Rebecca.

Rebecca: Thanks again.

All right, working moms, till next week, let's get to it.

The next step to getting unstuck and having more days where you bounce out of bed feeling certain that you're doing exactly what you want to be doing, regaining your confidence, ending all of that negative chatter in your head, is to book a free breakthrough call.

This is a strategy call where I will guide you through setting a vision for the life that you want to lead as a working mom. And then I'll lay out a plan for exactly how we will achieve that together through one-on-one coaching.

You can book that call by going to rebeccaolsoncoaching.com/book.

All right, working moms, let's get to it.

Rebecca Olson