Why Time Blocking Doesn't Work for Everyone (And What Does) with Anna Dearmon Kornick

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In this episode, I sit down with time management coach Anna Dearman Kornick for a fascinating conversation about why traditional productivity advice doesn't work for everyone. We explore how your personality influences the way you plan, make decisions, and manage your time, and why feeling overwhelmed has far less to do with your calendar than you might think. If you've ever felt like you're failing at time management, this episode will completely reframe the way you think about productivity, overwhelm, and creating a life that actually works for you. 

In this episode, we unpack: 

  • Why overwhelm is often the real problem. 

  • How your personality shapes the way you manage time. 

  • Practical tools to create mental capacity before tackling your to-do list. 

  • Why one-size-fits-all productivity systems often fail. 

  • Simple ways to build a schedule that works with your brain instead of against it. 

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Connect with Anna: 

Transcript

Have you ever gotten to the end of a really busy day and still felt like you didn't actually accomplish anything? Like you were running hard, but somehow you're just sort of running in circles?

That's where Anna comes in. Anna is a work-life balance coach who specializes in something I haven't heard framed quite this way before: personality-informed time management.

The idea is that most of the time management strategies we've all tried—time blocking, rigid calendaring, structured meeting schedules—were all designed for a specific type of person. And if you're not that person, no amount of discipline is going to make it work.

What actually works is understanding how you operate, what energizes you, where your strengths are, and how to build a day around that instead of fighting against it.

Anna and I had such an amazing conversation. We got into the nuances of what this actually looks like in practice, and I think by the end, you're gonna feel a whole lot less like you're doing something wrong and a lot more like you have permission to do it your way.

Are you ready? Let's get to it.

Welcome to the Ambitious and Balanced Working Moms podcast, your go to resource for integrating your career ambitions with life as a mom, I'm distilling down thousands of coaching conversations I've had with working moms just like you, along with my own personal experience as a mom of two and sharing the most effective tools and strategies to help you quickly feel calm, confident, and in control of your ambitious working mom life. You ready? Let's get to it.

Rebecca: I am so excited to introduce you to my new best friend. This is Anna Dearmon Kornick. I mean, we literally, like, met about 12 minutes ago or something like that, but I could tell we are going to just hit it off. And I'm so excited to have her on the podcast. Thank you, Anna, for being here.

Anna: Well, thank you for having me. This is going to be so fun!

Rebecca: So, so fun. Hey, better you give an intro than me. So tell us a little bit about yourself as we get going here.

Meet Anna Dearmon Kornick: Time Management Coach, Mom, and Podcast Host

Anna: Sure. So, my name is Anna Dearmon Kornick. I'm a time management coach, founder of It's About Time, host of It's About Time, a podcast about work, life, and balance.

But I'm also a mom to two little girls, Camilla and Elizabeth, who are 5 and 7. I was telling Rebecca right before we started that my house sounds like an echo chamber of giggles most of the time now because they are just at that age.

I live in South Louisiana, really close to New Orleans, so we are all in on the festivals. We love Mardi Gras every winter and spring. And it is really hot right now in the summertime, and we're just in the summer routine right now.

The girls are going to day camp. I'm working a little bit shorter hours during the summer. We've got our daily theme days in place to keep us from, you know, defaulting to screen time.

Rebecca: Have some sanity.

Anna: Yeah, exactly. And it's just, it's really good when I'm not, when I'm not, I guess working on my business, which I absolutely love, like anything regarding my business is just honestly it's time well spent to me. I love doing yoga and working out and baking!

Rebecca: Oh, so good. I love it. My daughter's really into baking actually, which is so fun. Like it's such a great little activity and hobby to have around. But I'm gonna say like this, having the regular sweets around, that's not my favorite thing.

Anna: That can be very daunting. Very daunting.

Rebecca: It's, let's, let's give these things away. Let's keep a few and push it up.

Anna: Great way to make friends with the neighbors.

Rebecca: Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. Great way. Now I'm like, I'm super fascinated how you got here into this, into doing this. Because you were working in, in the government prior to this, right?

Anna: I was.

Rebecca: Tell us a little bit about that journey from like that type of role to what you do now in like time management and coaching and so forth.

What Working on Capitol Hill Taught Anna About Time Management

Anna: Sure. So, one of my first jobs—not my very first job, but one of my first jobs right out of college—I moved to Washington, D.C., and became a scheduler to a United States congressman. So if you're not familiar with the setup inside of a congressional office...

Rebecca: And I am not, just so we're clear. And I would imagine most people are not.

Anna: Well, everybody's going to really learn some inner workings today. Because every single member of Congress and every single senator's office has a position called scheduler. And that entire position is dedicated to managing the member of Congress's calendar. That's it. Like, that is the full-time job dedicated to managing someone's calendar.

I mean, it's kind of similar to an executive assistant role in a corporate setting. But it's on a different level.

And one thing that people often say—and as a former scheduler, I agree with this—is that schedulers are the unsung heroes of Capitol Hill. Because if the elected officials don't know where they're supposed to be and when, nothing is going to get done. Or you could say even less is going to get done. So as a scheduler…

Rebecca: Can people get on your good side and then find that extra, like five minutes to be with your person? I mean, did you have that?

Why Time Management Is Really About Decision-Making

Anna: What's really funny is that there was this one lobbyist who got it. And I remember he would send flowers every once in a while just to, like, say, "Hey, you're doing a great job." I'd be like, "He's a smart guy right there." Like, "You're the one. I see what you're doing."

Very few people realize just the importance of this one gatekeeping position. But I was literally responsible for managing every single minute of his day, from when he woke up to when he went to bed at night.

So we're not just talking between the hours of nine to five, because when you are an elected official, this is 24/7. And so we're talking granular minutia of, "This is when he's going to the gym. This is when he's getting ready for the day. This is when he's having his stand-up meeting with the chief of staff. This is the time it's going to take him to walk from Rayburn House Office Building over to XYZ Building in order to make fundraising calls,”.

Rebecca: Which takes seven minutes and so there's going to be... It's wild. So no wonder this segues into getting into time management for you and becoming something that you got really passionate about. I mean, like, you just lived in a calendar. You had to know... I'm sure you learned the good, the bad, and the hard, all of the...

Anna: I mean, I'd say that it was a really strong introduction because, I mean, you can't spend an entire workday in a calendar without taking away a lot of the underpinnings of decision-making.

Because there's so much more to decision-making about the calendar than meets the eye, especially when you're balancing conflicting or differing priorities.

I mean, because when you look at it, when you are someone who is in a high-up position—okay, we've been saying a member of Congress, but you can be a business owner, you can be the head of a department, you can be literally any role…

Rebecca: A manager of 10 people. I mean, yeah, yeah.

Time Management Is More Than Just Energy Management

Anna: You have to make decisions constantly about the best place to allocate your time. And this is why it always drives me nuts when people say that time management doesn't exist. "It's self-management," or "Time management doesn't exist, it's energy management." No, time management exists. And it involves all of those pieces.

Rebecca: All of those pieces.

The Unexpected Childhood Experience That Shaped Anna's Passion

Anna: Yeah, exactly. It's energy management, it's habit coordination, it's attention wrangling. It's all of it. All of that is time management.

And so I'd say yes, that's when I got that foundation. But I'd say what has really fueled the passion happened a lot earlier. And that was something that I didn't recognize until a lot later. So, I grew up in a funeral home family.

Rebecca: Like your family owned or worked in a funeral home?

Anna: Owned a funeral home.

Rebecca: Oh, wow. Okay.

Anna: So my stepdad, owns a funeral home.

Rebecca: Fascinating. What a fascinating background.

Growing Up in a Funeral Home Changed Anna's Perspective on Life

Anna: A generational funeral home in a small town. I grew up in a really small town in North Louisiana where everybody knows everybody, everybody's in everybody's business.

And, you know, think about what conversation is like around the dinner table. Okay? Right now we're talking, we're asking the girls, "What was your day like at camp?" I'm mentioning something that I talked with a client about. My husband mentions something from his work.

Well, now imagine that one of your parents owns a funeral home.

Rebecca: Yes, I got it.

Anna: Yes.

Rebecca: Yes.

Anna: And so our conversation around the dinner table typically turned to who in our small town had recently passed away, who had recently lost someone. And, of course, we knew everyone.

And so I grew up without even realizing that this was so different from how most people grew up. But of course it is.

Rebecca: We don't normally talk about all the people who died in the community on a regular basis.

Why Time Is the Tool That Makes Your Dream Life Possible

Anna: Death was a regular part of life for me, and I grew up with a front-row seat to the fact that life is fleeting and precious. We don't know how much time we have. We don't know if tomorrow is promised.

And when you can combine that energy of "I don't want to take a minute for granted" with the skills and decision-making that come with managing a high-powered calendar, I am now absolutely passionate about helping people—women in particular—live the life of their dreams with the time that they have.

Because time is the tool. Time is the lever that makes that happen.

Rebecca: Yeah, yeah. What a cool backstory into all of that. And to see, to just grow up with a lens of time and its sort of finiteness—but not in a negative way—but actually in a really positive view of what you get to spend with your time and how you live your life and living it to the fullest and kind of having that framework.

What a gift on some level. So I love that. So, so good.

So when you start thinking about, or when you start working with someone talking about time management, what is your starting point? Because, I mean, I know a lot of people come to me and they think time management is sort of what they need to focus on.

And obviously, having coached hundreds and hundreds of women in this, I know it's not the starting point. Not that we're not going to get there, but it's not for me. But where do you tend to start?

Anna: Yeah, you know, it's the same thing that you said. It looks like a time management problem. Being late looks like a time management problem.

Rebecca: Super disorganized. Get everything done. Yeah.

Why Time Management Isn't the Real Starting Point

Anna: And if that's what you want to call it, that's fine. I mean, that's literally the reason why I call myself a time management coach. Because the problem looks like a time management problem. And so when people have a time management problem, especially women, we want to fix it.

So how can we buy a new planner? How can we download a new app? How can we do something, or buy something, or start something that's going to fix it?

But the real starting point is actually about 17 steps before that. And it's creating the capacity to craft your vision.

And most of the time when people hear that, they're like, "No, Anna, I just want to stop being late places. I don't want to have the capacity to craft my vision. I just want to stop being late."

It's like, I hear you. I hear you.

So let's take a look at the overwhelm that you're feeling. And again, I find that a lot of time management programs and books—because I'm sure between the two of us we've probably read and looked at all of them—start with, "Let's create a vision," or "Let's start getting systems in place."

But if you are so overwhelmed that you can't think straight, which is where a lot of people are when they finally hit that breaking point, we have to create capacity first.

So yeah, in my four-step method...

Rebecca: Wait, are you saying that capacity is not just more time?

Anna: Would you believe?

Rebecca: I think a lot of people think that too. Like, they're like, "I need more space in my calendar to do the things." I think capacity and time are...

Anna: More space in your brain.

Rebecca: I know.

You Can’t Fix Your Time Management Until You Address Your Overwhelm.

Anna: Yeah. And that's it. You need more space in your brain because you can't think. And we all, at this point, know what the mental load is. Like, we're all carrying around a million things, and we can't even start to fix our time management until we address overwhelm.

Overwhelm Isn't About Your Calendar—It's About Your Capacity

Rebecca: Yeah, yeah. Because overwhelm has a completely, like, a total physiological overtake, right? Like, it takes over. It limits your thinking immediately.

It doesn't matter if you're scheduled back to back to back to back. You could have—I don't know, I'm sure lots of people experience this too—you can have a completely open day and get nothing done in that day because of the lack of capacity, because of the lack of mental space and the overwhelm that can come with that.

Right. And so fixing that first, so your body literally—like, the cortisol levels in your body calm down so you can think straight—is the beginning of everything.

Why Your Nervous System Matters More Than Your To-Do List

Anna: 100%. 100%. And I think the more that we are learning about the role that our nervous system plays in our ability to focus and do literally anything, incorporating... How can you breathe? How can you just breathe?

How can you begin to sort out all of the... I think about, like, a bucket of ping pong balls. And that's kind of what's going on in our head a lot of the time. It's like someone's dumped out a bucket of ping pong balls, and everything's just flying everywhere. And you can't grab onto anything because everything is flying. So how do we settle that down?

You Don't Eliminate Overwhelm—You Learn to Navigate It

And really, overwhelm is something that you never truly solve 100%. Like, you don't think, "Oh, overwhelm. Let me check that off my list. I'm done."

It's something that is going to happen over and over again in different forms and flavors. And so being able to recognize, A, when you are in that place of overwhelm, and B, what type of overwhelm are you feeling? Like, what's really going on here?

Then you can apply the proper tool, or combination of tools, methods, whatever, to work your way out of it and back to the capacity to make clear decisions.

Rebecca: Yeah. And then coming back to the starting point, because you talked about vision. But I'm guessing that what you're talking, what you're connecting here is one of the things that gets you out of overwhelm, or really the main tool that gets you out of that, is having a really clear vision for yourself.

Why Overwhelm Has to Be Addressed Before You Can Create a Vision

Anna: Well, you know, for the longest time, the very first step in my program was to create your vision. Until I realized that so many women could not.

Rebecca: Couldn't even do that in the state of overwhelm.

Anna: Because of the state of overwhelm that they were in. And that's when I kind of pulled back. I did, and I took it back to the drawing board, and I was like, "What's missing here?"

And it was, how do we navigate overwhelm first so that you have the space to create a vision? Because that—I mean, if you are so overloaded, it's impossible to think about what you want your life to look like in a year because you're just in survival mode.

Rebecca: Yeah. Yeah. And so what's some of your thoughts, or methodology, on solving overwhelm?

Step One: Get Everything Out of Your Head

Anna: Sure. So I think of it like a toolbox. It's not a step one, step two, step three. Because you can't use a hammer to solve a screwdriver problem.

It's, "Okay, I am overwhelmed. Now what's going on here?"

If you don't know where to start because you have so many things on your mind, we need to start by getting them out of your mind.

So for that, I recommend a mind sweep. David Allen talked about it in his Getting Things Done system. It's just getting everything out of your head and on paper.

But that paper does not become your to-do list because that tends to cause even more overwhelm. And people think that, "Oh, well, now that I have all of this out of my head, now I have to do all of these things."

No, that's actually not the case at all. We just want to get the things out of your head so that now you have the brain space to think.

Step Two: Use a Clarity Compass to Find What Matters Most

So then it becomes, "Okay, so I know what I need to do, but I don't know what to do first." Because that's a problem. I don't know what to do first.

So this is where you use what I call a Clarity Compass. And that is, you can take that mind sweep, if you've already done one, and you can break it out into four categories:

  • What are the things that I must do?

  • The things that I should do.

  • The things that I want to do.

  • And the things that I could do.

And getting really clear on those must-dos, meaning everything on that must-do list must be done in the next 24 to 48 hours or there will be a major consequence.

Because that's the problem, is that we tend to look at everything on our list as a must-do.

Why Letting Go Feels So Hard

Rebecca: As a must-do. Yeah. Yeah. Or a lot of should-ing on that too. And I'm thinking about a client that I had who was probably one of the most overwhelmed clients I worked with. And we did some of the mind sweeping together. She would go out and do that.

But the paralyzation of the next step, of trying to find clarity around which of these to do and which of them not to do, it was absolutely debilitating for her because she could not get past the idea that she had to let some of these things go.

Right. And that not all of these things were actually important and had to get done.

And so there was some interesting work that we had to dig into. And that led down to some of her identity, and we had to dig into some of that.

And so, you know, for some people, yeah, you look at that list and it's like, "Of course I'm supposed to do all of this. All of this is important. All of this I'm supposed to meet at a certain standard."

And that can be really challenging. That can be really challenging as well.

The Hidden Identity Work Behind Your "Should" List

Anna: Absolutely. What you said about the identity work, I find that when we look at what's in that should category, those are the things that we feel obligated to do.

Whether it is an unrealistic standard that we're placing on ourselves, or something that is maybe a little people-pleasing, or it's, "We don't align with this, but we don't want to let someone down."

Because think about it. It would go in the want-to category if we didn't feel that twinge of something inside of us telling us that, "I don't really want to do this, but I feel like I should."

That's where a lot of that, like you said, identity work begins. Like, what makes this feel like a should? Who do you feel like you're going to let down? What are truly the consequences? What's the worst-case scenario if you decline, or if you reduce your involvement in order to create more space for those must-dos and the want-tos?

And even the good news—we're not deleting them. We're just putting them somewhere else for now.

Why Personality Matters in Time Management

Rebecca: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I love that. Well, and then, you know, one thing I want to get into—I want to segue a little bit because I think I've never really talked about time management from a personality-informed angle. And I know that that's something unique that you bring. And I think we can have a really fascinating conversation.

I think this is a good segue because when we start talking about identity and what gets behind some of these—you know, your Clarity Compass—I would imagine your personality, or your genetic makeup, these things start to play into it. This is not a one-size-fits-all solution.

And so I'd love to chat a little bit about that and how personality comes into play here.

Anna: Yeah, I have been a fan of personality quizzes since probably TeenB magazine. Circle A if this, circle B if this. And I just have always loved that.

Rebecca: Wait, what's your favorite?

Why Personality Shapes the Way You Manage Your Time

Anna: Oh, my favorite personality assessment. So I'm a certified Myers-Briggs practitioner, and so I love the Myers-Briggs. I love CliftonStrengths, used to be called StrengthsFinder. And I love the Enneagram. I think that's my favorite.

Rebecca: Yeah, it's really fascinating.

Anna: Yeah, I've read several Enneagram books, and while I'm a certified Myers-Briggs practitioner, and I use Myers-Briggs with all of my coaching clients, I love to layer in other assessments as well.

So if they have DISC results that they may have taken at work, or StrengthsFinder results that they've taken somewhere else, or if they know their Enneagram, that gives us just a different lens to look through when it comes to how they implement some of these strategies.

Because it's like you said, time management, and most things in life, cannot be a one-size-fits-all because each of us brings to the table a unique combination of the way that we make decisions, the type of information that we trust in making those decisions, the way that we become energized and become drained, and the way that we see the world.

And you and I can both be time management enthusiasts and have completely different reasons and just innate preferences for the way that we operate within the boundaries of time.

And one of the most frustrating things to me over the years—and it's one of the reasons why I really decided to specialize in this area—is because I had so many friends and high-achieving, driven women in my life who... I remember thinking that, "Man, you would love XYZ system or XYZ method—but not as it's written."

Like, I felt like I couldn't recommend certain books to people because I would just know, like, "Oh, Sarah is going to hate that book. But that method would work really well for her if she tweaked it in this way," you know.

Rebecca: Interesting. Yeah.

Why Most Time Management Systems Don't Work for Everyone

Anna: And often, if you look at the personality... if you look at the time management books and systems that are written, they are written by a person with a personality type for that same type. 

Rebecca: Right, right. Or hardwired in that way, right? Like, their brain thinks and operates in that way.

I think we can all recognize that we all, our brains operate differently. Like, I think universally, we can all accept that on some level. Not even going into, like, neurotypical to neurodiverse or whatever. Just generally speaking, we can all recognize we all have different perspectives and ways of thinking about things.

And so, obviously, that's going to have an effect on the kinds of methodologies that work for you and the kinds that don't.

Stop Blaming Yourself When a Productivity System Doesn't Fit

Anna: And yet, when we try some method that someone else teaches and it doesn't work for us, we blame ourselves. It's my fault, right? 

Rebecca: I do this all the time. I do this all the time. Absolutely.

Anna: And I just got so tired of seeing that. And I'm like, there has gotta be a way to take personality and what I know about time management and mesh it so that people can...

It's almost like customizing a car, right? You've got your standard, like, the base level of a car. But it's like, "No, I want this bell and this whistle." But you might want this bell and this whistle.

So let's start with a foundation, with a framework. And then how can we customize it so that it makes sense for the way that you think?

Rebecca: Yeah. I mean, man, I want to hear all about this. I mean, I want to get... I want to hear a little bit about some examples of this. I think that would be really helpful for people to understand if you're able to give us some simple illustrations of how different personalities work with different types of methodologies.

How Personality Changes the Way You Should Plan Your Week

Anna: Yeah, definitely. So, let's think about, for example, planning our week. You know, doing a weekly planning session. We're looking at the week ahead.

So let's say that you are someone who knows that you're more extroverted. Like, you know that you're someone who loves to chit-chat. You need to be out and about. Like, you are going to start feeling yucky if you spend too much time in your home office with the door closed at your laptop.

So if that's you, can you intentionally build social time into your week? Not as something that is not work, like as, you know, let's say we're trying to be efficient, we're trying to have a successful week. But without intentional social time, you will not have the most successful week that you could because you are going to feel so drained from the lack of social time.

And so if I'm working with someone who is more on the extroverted side, I'm like, "Okay, so how are you intentionally creating connection in your week in a way that fuels you rather than drains you?"

And then on the flip side, if you are someone who knows that you are more introverted, how can we intentionally schedule buffer time between meetings so that you have time to intentionally recharge?

A back-to-back-to-back Zoom session for an introvert is like hell. That's, like, completely draining.

Rebecca: One might argue that that's probably not the best use of your time anyway. 

Anna: Right, but if you're in an environment where that's the expectation, what control can you take over the situation to create intentional recharge moments for yourself?

How Neurodiversity Changes the Way We Think About Time Management

Rebecca: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I'm even thinking about, because this is something that's come up a lot for my clients, as more and more research comes out around neurodivergent thinking and, you know, people with ADHD and how they think.

You know, that used to have such a negative wrap around it. I mean, I remember my brother was diagnosed with that, and it was kind of given, like, I don't know, as if you were different, I guess. 

Anna: But it's like a stigma.

Rebecca: Yeah, there was a really negative stigma. And I think some of that stigma is really lifting now, and I appreciate that so much.

And as we do more and more research around that, I would imagine time management for a neurodivergent thinker is so different than for a neurotypical thinker. Do you dig into that?

Anna: Well, so what I have found is that the strategies really are the same.

Rebecca: What do you mean?

Neurodivergent vs. Neurotypical Isn't Always the Right Question

Anna: They're not that different. But here's the thing. If you are someone who is neurodivergent and you're thinking about Myers-Briggs in particular, one of the two pairs is Judging versus Perceiving.

People with a preference for Judging prefer closure. People with a preference for Perceiving prefer open-endedness. They do not like to feel boxed in. They do not like to feel like they... A rigid schedule does not work for them.

I have worked with clients who have that Perceiving preference who are neurotypical and who are neurodivergent.

But as long as you account for that Perceiving preference, and you create a schedule for yourself with flexibility and menu options versus a rigid, "I must do things in this order," it's more about that preference than it is truly about, "This person is neurodivergent and this person is not."

Do You Prefer Structure or Flexibility?

But both of these people have a preference for open-endedness. So how do we create a time management environment that allows for open-endedness?

And then you may have someone who is neurodivergent, but they have this preference, this innate preference for, "No, I want things to be rigid. Like, I want a schedule," right next to someone who is neurotypical.

And it's the same strategies. It's just applied differently. So it doesn't have to be neurotypical versus neurodivergent. It's, do you prefer closure, or do you prefer open-endedness? Or is it somewhere in between?

What a Nine-Year-Old Taught Rebecca About Time Management

Rebecca: So I want to get in... I have an idea on how to map this out. But this is what's interesting about this to me.

We had a little family meeting yesterday, okay? Because we just got done with our two major vacations for the summer. We've got another seven weeks of the summer to go, right?

And so we're like, "All right, let's regroup here as a family. What's our plan here? What are some of our rhythms? What are some of our expectations?"

And my son is only nine, but he's starting to be able to... Yesterday we were talking about how we need to get some reading time in. Everybody needs reading time. He, in particular, needs writing time because he's a little bit behind in his writing.

And so we were talking through some of these things, and he wanted to know, like, "Are we going to require this to be done before I can watch my TV show for the day? Is this going to be required before this?"

And so I was like, "So what do you think, buddy?"

And he's like, "Well, I'd like it to be flexible."

And he's starting to be able to say, "I actually would prefer... I know all of those things have to get done, but I don't like feeling like I have to do them when I first walk in. I'd like some space."

Now, he's got some other challenges. Like, well, we also have dinner, and sometimes you're just so tired that if we don't do it first thing, it's not going to happen. You know, there are some other things involved in that.

But being able to see, based on his personality, that he wants openness in this, and he wants to be given the trust to be able to do these things, is really fascinating. And to be able to see that even in our kids... But yeah, great example, right?

Anna: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Rebecca: Of openness versus rigidity. Yes, yes. And for us, we're just like, "Let's just knock it out, buddy." And then you can have all this time in the evening to do what you want.

And he's just kind of starting to rail against that, and we're having more meltdowns if we try to force some of that versus giving him the option of time, of how he would like to schedule his time, and so forth.

Experiment Until You Find the Time Management Strategy That Fits

Anna: And that's, I mean, experimentation is awesome. And you know, like you said, if we start doing it super structured and he starts to rail against that, okay, let's...How can we say it has to be done before dinner, because then it's that whole time frame, and you're able...

And if the time sneaks up and I'm like, "Hey, dinner's in like five minutes, and this didn't happen," how can you create a midpoint reminder that is automated that's like, "Hey, have you done your writing yet?" It's, I mean, we have...

Rebecca: Or a natural consequence to that or whatever. Right, Right.

Anna: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

How to Plan Your Week Based on Your Personality Type

Rebecca: Yeah. So I'm, you know, one thing that I'm sure most people have heard, whether they have this sort of implemented in their own life, is, like, some sort of beginning-of-the-week plan, right? Like, whether that's a Monday morning or a Friday afternoon for the next week or whatever.

But you have some time where you're supposed to plan for the week. What a great idea, right? Like, make a plan.

So if we're starting to think about different personality types and how we might tackle that kind of scheduling or vision-casting session, how would you start to navigate that with different types of personalities?

Anna: Yeah. Okay, so first of all, I'd say that—because I'm trying to think about how to kind of talk through this—if we're looking at four different main categories, because Myers-Briggs is basically made up of four different preference pairs.

We've got introversion and extroversion. And next, we've got sensing and we've got intuition. Sensing is more concrete, more experiential, more black-and-white. Whereas intuition, that's more abstract, more open-ended, more possibilities-oriented, more brainstorming. Okay?

Then there's thinking versus feeling. Thinking is more logic-based decision-making, whereas feeling is more harmony-based decision-making.

And then the last pair is judging versus perceiving, which is: Are you more closure-oriented, or are you more open-ended?

Why Some People Need a Specific Weekly Planning Routine

And so, if I am working with someone who is creating a weekly planning session, and they are introverted, they are a sensing type, they are a thinking type, and they are a judging type—okay? So let's say that this is their profile—I would encourage them to schedule a consistent time, one day a week, on their calendar, in a quiet space.

So right there, we've got concrete, where it's not just, "At some point on Sunday." Because if you are an intuition type or a perceiving type, you prefer things to be open-ended. I would say, just tell yourself you'll do it at some point on Sunday.

But someone who is more closure-oriented and more specific is going to feel more comfort with a specific, recurring, repeatable time.

Not only that, they're going to want a step-by-step agenda. They're going to want it to say, "First, I do this…

Rebecca: Tell me the five questions I need to answer during this time and I will…

Anna: Exactly. What are my steps? Okay. They're going to want to have it very structured because that's what's going to make them feel comfortable.

Whereas someone on the flip side who is more open-ended and possibilities-oriented, they still want to have a plan for their week, but they also don't want to feel boxed in. And they don't want to feel boxed in with the planning, or else they're going to rebel against the planning time, right?

Rebecca: Yep. yep.

Create a Weekly Planning System That Matches the Way You Think

Anna: So it becomes, do it at some point on Sunday before dinner. Okay. Whatever version of that looks like for them. Some type of milestone orientation rather than a time orientation.

Then it's, what are the categories that you need to think about? Not, "Step one, do this. Step two, do this." But what are the categories that you need to think about?

Oh, well, I need to think about work. I need to think about home. I need to think about workouts.

So then it becomes more—not amorphous—but just more fluid. More, "Okay, let me take a look at work. Let me take a look at home. Okay. I feel good about this plan."

And then maybe they're not planning every single activity.

You know, I think about me as a mom. We use theme days to organize our after-camp daily activities. And I know Monday…

Rebecca: I'm thinking like Western theme. And I'm thinking like, I don't know, party theme. I don't know. What are we dressing up? Are there costumes?

Anna: Don't get me wrong, I love a theme day. And the camp that they're at this summer, every single Friday is a dress-up day. Like, this Friday is a Western day. So I'm picking up cowboy hats today anyway. No, Monday is Make It Monday, where we make some kind of a craft.

Rebecca: I see. Okay.

Anna: Tuesday is Treat Yourself Tuesday.

Rebecca: You could wear a cowboy hat doing that too.

Anna: Tuesday's Treat Yourself Tuesday. Wednesday is Water Wednesday. Thursday is Thirsty Thursday. And Friday is Movie and Pizza Friday. And this creates this rotating activity that's always going to be different.

Now, if I were more on the sensing side—more on the concrete, let's-be-specific side—I would plan out every single activity for all five days. But I'm not. So I get to Monday and I'm like, "What craft are we going to make?"

Rebecca: Here's a menu of options.

Anna: Yeah, exactly.

Rebecca: Yeah.

Stop Trying to Force Yourself Into Someone Else's Productivity System

Anna: And so that's what's most comfortable. When you are trying to fit yourself like a square peg in a round hole into a time management method as written, without applying it and adjusting it, you're going to hit that friction every time.

And again, this also goes back to personality. If you are a sensing type, it is tough. I mean, it is tough to see how to adapt because you feel most comfortable with the step-by-step. But there is no step-by-step that is designed exactly for the way that you think.

Rebecca: Fascinating. Fascinating. Yeah, I mean, I personally am an ENTJ.

Anna:  Me too! Oh, look at us. So good.

Anna: That’s why we’re best friends.

Rebecca: I know. And so, like I do way better with a menu of options.

Anna: Yeah. You've gotta have the. It's because of your end. It's like I need the possibilities. I want to make a decision. But I'll make a decision if you give me a menu.

There's Nothing Wrong With the Way Your Brain Works

Rebecca: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And for years, I've thought there was something wrong with me on some things. You know, it really did take a long time for me to go, "Actually, I think this is okay." I think it's just a part of who I am.

When you tell me one thing to do, I'm probably not going to do it because I don't want to feel boxed into it at all.

Yeah, it's fascinating. Fascinating as it comes into this. I mean, gosh, I feel like we could talk about this forever.

Anna: And my thing is, think about how many women are walking around thinking that there's something wrong with them.

Rebecca: I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, I work with so many women that are in jobs that do require an immense amount of time management—or schedule management, we'll call it. Lots of meetings, lots of demands all of the time.

Like, I'm thinking of one client that has an executive assistant who does a lot of that scheduling for her. And there's a lot of back and forth between them on how they manage their time, you know, and how she manages her schedule and time.

It feels like the world is not created for the intuitive, for the openness. It feels like we're designed for rigidity. I would imagine most time management is a box. It's like, "Do this. Do this. Do this." And just do it. And don't...Yeah, I feel like a lot of time management is that.

Anna: That doesn't work for me.

How to Take Control of Your Calendar in a Meeting-Heavy Culture

Rebecca: It doesn't work for me either. But for the people that do manage a lot of back-to-back-to-back meetings—or are in a back-to-back-to-back meeting kind of culture or a last-minute-meeting kind of culture because it's super fast-paced—what are some of the strategies you might give them around managing their time to feel less overwhelmed by it?

Anna: Yeah, yeah. I'd say I understand completely what that's like because I myself have been in multiple roles that were nonstop, constant meetings, last-minute meetings. And when you are crystal clear on the priorities of the season, it makes a lot of those decisions just easier to make. You find that there are very likely meetings that you are giving your time to that do not deserve your time anymore.

So one piece is, hey, you might have kind of gone into autopilot with a lot of the meeting culture—or the meeting schedule, meeting cadence, whatever.

Audit Your Meetings Before You Add Another Productivity Hack

Sometimes you need to take a step back and say, "Are all of these meetings still serving me?" Could the duration or the cadence be adjusted in order to reduce the time spent in meetings? And then really assess, can any of this be delegated?

We're kind of getting into meeting-audit stuff here, but that's honestly one of the first pieces: realizing that you can have more impact on your schedule than you realize, even when you are in a meeting-heavy culture. 

Especially if you are in a manager or director role, because at that point you very likely have people that you need to cultivate and give opportunities to serve as your proxy in certain settings.

Rebecca: Delegate to them.

Sometimes Time Management Isn't the Problem—The Environment Is

Anna: Exactly. And then it's asking yourself, what can I control here? How can you protect the time that you're not in meetings in order to actually get things done?

And sometimes you realize that you have time-management-ninja'd your meetings to the nth degree, as much as they can possibly be handled. You have protected as much time as you can. And sometimes you just discover that you're in a toxic environment.

Rebecca: Yeah, sometimes it just really is not the right fit—a culture, a job type, or whatever it might be.

Anna: Absolutely. And when you realize that, "Oh, wow. No, I've done everything that I can do here."

Rebecca: I've controlled what I can control, and it's still draining to me at the end of the day and not giving me the kind of life and joy that I want. That says a lot about where you're at.

Anna: That's when it's decision time. Because going back to the beginning of our conversation, we're not promised tomorrow. How long do you want to spend in a miserable work environment when you've done everything that you could do?

The Simple Filter Rebecca Uses to Decide What Deserves a Yes

Rebecca: One of the tools I give to my Ambitious & Balanced coaching program—my group where I teach a three-month process to work-life balance, essentially, and sustainability in work-life balance—is what you called a Clarity Compass. I would imagine this might be similar on some level.

Mine's called the Yes Criteria, where you come up with three to five—no more than five for sure—but three to five points that something has to meet before you get to say yes to it.

Oftentimes it's meeting-related. Every meeting gets filtered through the Yes Criteria. Only if you're the only one on the team that can do it. Only if it meets one of your top three priorities for the quarter. So you kind of come up with your list of things, and then everything has to filter through that.

If, at the end, you're still saying yes to everything, then it's a yes. If there's a no in there, then it's time to say no, and you've got to figure out how you're going to get that thing done, right?

Anna: I like that.

Why Great Time Management Sometimes Feels Ruthless

Rebecca: Something like that. And it feels—I use the word ruthless a lot with people because people think this is easy. We're not saying it feels easy at all.

In fact, really managing your calendar well, managing your time and your energy, and making sure you're focusing on the things that matter to you—sometimes it feels really ruthless to do that. Sometimes it feels really hard, and you're letting go of good things.

Anna: Especially in the beginning, when you're really starting to bring more intention to it and it hasn't become second nature yet.

Rebecca: Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. And sometimes I like to reframe things like that too. I'm like, "But isn't it amazing that you have a life where you're choosing between two good things?" Isn't that great? What a gift that is—that you have several things that you really want to do, that are vying for your attention, and you wish you could do them all.

Like, you've created an amazing life for yourself. Let's just celebrate that today too. So, so good. Oh man, I feel like we could talk about this forever. So good.

Thank you for taking the time to be with us, though. Tell us where we can get to know you, where we can follow you, all of your information if people want to get ahold of you and start learning more about you.

Where to Learn More From Anna Dearmon Kornick

Anna: Awesome. Well, first, thank you so much for having me. This has been such a fun conversation. I'm obsessed with the fact that we're both ENTJs, because it's like, "Okay, I get how you think." That's awesome.

Yes, if you're looking to stay in touch, I would absolutely love to hear from you. If you're listening to a podcast, just head over and search for It's About Time wherever you're listening right now. My podcast, It's About Time, is a podcast about work, life, and balance. 

New episodes go live every Monday, where I'm either talking through a time management strategy and how to apply it to your life and your personality, or I'm interviewing a go-getter about how they're getting things done. Because, let's be honest, it's so fun to hear about how other people are doing life and pull inspiration from that.

So, every Monday, wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you're starting to get a little bit curious about how you can mold time management and your approach to work-life balance around your personality, I actually have a free video series called Blueprint to Balance that will walk you through exactly how to do that. You can check that out at BlueprintToBalance.com.

Rebecca: And of course, we will put all of that in the show notes as well.

And I know that we're going to continue to be best of friends moving forward, so I love that. And you never know, listeners—you might see her again here on the podcast. We'd love that.

But until next week, let's get to it.

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Rebecca Olson