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Erin is on the executive leadership team at a marketing firm and through coaching went from feeling burnt out and overwhelmed as a working mom to feeling calm and balanced. In this interview Erin speaks of how her identity, before her daughter was born, was found in her career and what it took for her to separate herself from her job so she could make the necessary changes to leave work at work, to shut off her brain after a long work-day, to control her schedule and energy and ultimately feel calm and in control of her working mom life.
Topics in this episode:
What takes to shorten cycles of anxiety and overwhelm
Tips for making life more efficient and balanced
What it takes to shift your focus off your career and onto you baby (and still be successful)
Taking control of what time you leave the office
The importance of emotional management and not overlooking how you feel
Knowing your value at your company is not how much you accomplish
How resting actually allows you to show up and serve at a higher level
Why knowing your purpose is an important part of creating boundaries
Show Notes & References:
Want to speak to me directly about how to balance a fulfilling career with your life as a mom? Then apply for a free breakthrough call by clicking here: www.rebeccaolsoncoaching.com/book
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Transcript
Intro
Welcome to the Ambitious and Balanced Working Moms Podcast, the place for women who want to balance their ambitious career goals with their life as a mom. If you're looking to feel more confident, decisive, and productive at, ah, both work and home, then this is the place for you. I'm your host, Rebecca Olson. Let's get to it.
Rebecca: Hello, ambitious working moms. It's been so fun to hear from so many of you. Over the last couple of weeks, we've been celebrating the 100th episode of this podcast that just happened a couple of weeks ago. If you haven't listened to that episode, I encourage you to go back and listen to it.
But I'm still getting emails from some of you, hearing from you on what this podcast has meant to you, some of your big takeaways. So, I just wanted to share a couple with you. I actually received this email just today from a listener, and here's what she said:
Your podcast is amazing. I love, love, love it. I think by far the biggest takeaway for me has been understanding that balance is not an external thing, but a mindset. Wow. That is a huge thing.
I was always working to try to balance by counting the hours or at least the milestones, how many dinners I make this week, how many soccer games I get to watch. This has left me scrambling for a better schedule to achieve my goals and a feeling that, of course, I didn't feel balanced. It's because I haven't yet managed to get X or Y negotiated with my working hours.
But since listening to your podcast, I am much more understanding that if it feels good, if it chimes with my values, then I can be balanced, even If it's not a fair split of time between work and family life. You've saved me so much emotional upset, and I will always be grateful to you.
Balance as a mindset
So good! I love that this listener is talking about balance as a mindset, because that is at the heart of so many things that we talk about. And I love how she illustrates the difference between where her thinking was at and how she was trying to get all of her ducks in a row, her circumstances in a particular way, her schedule in a certain way, and finding that that it's not manageable to do all of that. But what is manageable is changing what she thinks and her perspective.
I want to share one more that has something very similar to say. This was a listener I heard from a little while ago, and she said:
“I cannot begin to describe to you how impactful this podcast has been in my life.”
It has been so influential in changing my mindset. When I go to work, I constantly struggle with work life balance, understanding that balance is your mindset has been so helpful. I'm not going to lie - I use your advice with my patients every day, and I recommend your podcast to many of them as well. They love it. Thank you for what you do.
Again, this listener is pointing out that balance is a mindset. It comes from the way you're thinking about yourself and your life. Thank you for sharing, ladies.
Get in touch and share your breakthroughs and takeaways,
And if you haven't reached out but you want to share some of your breakthroughs with me, you want to share some of your takeaways, I would love to hear from you. You could send me an email at rebecca@rebeccaolsoncoaching.com. And don't forget, I love hearing podcast episode ideas. I heard from a number of you on that as well, so send me those as well to the same address.
But on today's podcast, I am rebroadcasting an interview that I did back in 2021 with a client that had just finished up with me.
We had worked together for nine months, and we just had one of the best conversations around what it takes to really put up boundaries and take ownership over your time and your energy and your priorities.
Work less but achieve more.
I thought it would be really valuable to rebroadcast it again. Erin Bowald is her name, and she shares with us how different she feels about herself as a mom, how clear she feels around her role at work and her priorities in life, how grounded she feels in herself and her strengths. And she shares with us how she is able to leave work at 4:30pm every day without guilt, and ultimately, how she's been able to work less but achieve more through the tools and the processes that she learned in coaching.
Erin is so fun to listen to. She has so many great stories to share. And this podcast is one that I recommend to so many women that are thinking about working with me in coaching because it gets to the heart of what we do, which is to value yourself as a human being more than to value yourself as a human worker.
And in coaching, we focus on separating your identity from your job, and Erin does such a great job explaining how we go about doing that. And then what happens when you do that hard work.
Just like so many of my interviews, I hit the record button mid conversation, so you're not going to hear her share about herself or do a proper intro until a couple of minutes into the podcast. But I really wanted to keep this part of the conversation in the podcast because I think it's so relatable to all of us as working moms, and it illustrates how far she had come from pre coaching to post coaching. All right, working moms, let's get to it.
Okay, real quick, before we get into this interview, Erin coached with me one-on-one for nine months.
Her journey is not unlike many ambitious women that feel overwhelmed and lost when they head back to work after maternity leave.
She's an executive at a job feeling a lot of responsibility and loyalty to her company and her team. She's a little bit of a go-getter, she has a positive attitude. Everybody sees her as a go to person. And all of that contributed to her really getting to this level in her company - but when her daughter was born, she could no longer devote the hours and the energy that she wants, or could.
In coaching, we worked on figuring out how she could stay productive and effective at her job without working all of the hours. In this interview with Erin, she shares the main tools we use to help her regain her confidence and start achieving at a new level. And as an FYI, we're picking up this interview, mid conversation.
Erin: So today was like a year ago, if today had happened, I would have really lost my shit. Because it was like the day where everything that could go wrong would go wrong, you know?
And so I was like, dang it, I'm gonna do this podcast, like I need to be in a good headspace. But the thing that was so funny, it made me realise like, Oh, no, you can get yourself in a good headspace. Like, you know how to bring yourself down from this. You know what I mean?
Kennedy was home with RSV for an entire week. She's back at daycare today. Today's the first day. But yeah, we're going out the door and she has a complete meltdown.
Drew's already out the door. And I'm just like, I gotta go, I've got a meeting at eight, I'm late to the meeting, I forgot my coffee at home. I'm just like, come on.
Switching up a negative moment to a positive.
But then I'm like, you know what, it's okay. It's totally fine. Nothing terrible happened. But I really think I would have had this negative cloud over me a year ago. It would have been harder for me to get out of that space. But I listened to some music on the way in from work, I felt good about it and I was like no damage was done. That's all good.
Rebecca: I love that, what a great way to start talking about this and reflecting on the before and after, if you will, of our work together. You seem to be very clued in, wow. There's a very clear difference in what you notice about yourself, that has really changed and it comes to mind all the time.
Erin: I just had my mid-year evaluation with my supervisors. And it's amazing also to hear them say you're a different person. You're calm...it's so good to hear that it's not just me that feels that way. And I'm noticing it when other people and my bosses are noticing, that feels really good.
Rebecca: Oh my gosh, I love that. And actually, I just had a conversation with another client about the same exact thing. She said I had my review and the very first thing they said was, you're just so calm. Maybe there's a bunch of crap going on underneath. But I don't see that. And they're like, no, actually, I just feel calm, like I am actually confident, I'm actually calm. I'm not just putting up this facade, you know, which, of course, is never really a facade, everybody knows that you have a bunch of stuff going on underneath the surface. Right?
So I love it. I love that you feel it.
Other people notice it. I know, we've talked about your husband, who's noticed it and has seen the big changes. I'm curious, if you were to tell us a little bit about the moments that you recognize as being different, what are some of those moments?
Questioning our negative thoughts when they arise.
Erin: It's so interesting, because we talked a lot about where you feel the emotion or the angsty feeling when I start to get stressed. And a lot of times it’s in my chest. And I think in those moments now, it's like, I start to feel it. And then it's this amazing thing, which again, these are just tools. I don't know why this seemed so hard - It's so easy.
But once I feel that in my chest, I'm able to take a step back and think. And a lot of the moments where these things come up are moments where I feel like I'm not doing enough, or I might disappoint someone, and I get that feeling in my chest.
And before it would last for so long. That feeling would last with me for the whole day, or hours or even days. And now, when I start to feel that feeling - and it's almost like a trigger for me to stop and ask myself some questions:
Why are you feeling this?
Where is this coming from?
Is this just something you're telling yourself?
Is this true?
Is this something that you're telling yourself out of fear, or judgment?
It's so good that I can and have shortened that period of time of the pain in my chest. That period of time is so much shorter now. And that is such a blessing.
Identifying the cycle that you're in that causes the anxiety.
Rebecca: I talk a lot with my clients about identifying the cycle that you're in that causes that anxiety and causes that emotion. And everybody can clue into that cycle differently.
Sometimes you're really aware about what you're thinking about. And you're hyper aware of that. Sometimes you're very aware, like you are of the emotion and how it feels in your body and that's how you recognize that this is going on.
Sometimes you're aware of what you're doing, like, I'm totally procrastinating, I'm not doing anything. And I should totally be doing this thing. And I'm not, everybody is kind of aware and for you, like really coming into how it feels and then recognizing every time I feel that I just know, I don't even have to, I don't have to do any research about it.
I just know, this is what's going on. I'm feeling inadequate. I'm feeling that I'm doing something wrong. Well now I know that, what do I want to feel is this really true? And you can go through the tools and get yourself out of that. But your hyper awareness of that is huge. I love that.
Erin: Which is so funny, because I feel like in our first few conversations, I think I had, I mean, maybe I was a little aware, but like you said earlier it was such a facade. I was like, I'm fine. I don't feel the things, but I don't know, it's just so funny. Where I came from in starting those conversations with you and how different it is.
Now, when I started feeling those things, it was just hard for me to even talk about it, because it would almost make me feel worse. But I was asking myself the right questions.
It’s normal and human to want to push away icky feelings.
Rebecca: It's really human for us to want to avoid that. Like when we're feeling inadequate, and we're worried about disappointing somebody, it is obviously super human for us to just say, I don't want to feel that. Or you just kind of gloss over it right?
You don't really dive into it, you don't do anything with it. And then that emotion just sits there, like you said, and it will just be there and affect everything from work, to the way you're interacting with your kids, to any kind of productivity. It just affects everything versus just recognizing it, bringing it to the surface and deciding what you want to do about it.
Don’t suppress and push away your emotions.
Erin: Yes, and that is a much more efficient way to go about life than pushing feelings down or stewing about feeling a certain way or being frustrated and not being able to do anything about it and just overthinking the same things. That is so inefficient.
I feel like I would find myself being so busy. But I made myself busier overthinking things, versus just addressing, like, okay, here's all the things that are making me busy. What can I give up? And I can give up some things. And I can say no to some things. But before I just allowed myself to sit and stew in the craziness, and I couldn't get myself out of it.
Rebecca: Yeah, I love it. Okay, so we're already a couple of minutes into talking about this. And we haven't even introduced you. Tell us about you and a little bit about what you do, how many kids you have, and just give us the sense of you.
Erin: I am Erin Bowald, and I am the Executive Account Director at Somantel in Peoria, Illinois. And Somantel is a marketing communications firm. So in my team, we are in charge of our client relationships, and managing our internal teams. I love my job so much. I've been doing it for 14 years now, I kind of grew up at the company. So obviously, I love it. I'm a wife and a mom, I have an amazing husband who thank God is the exact opposite of me, very calm and relaxed. God I love him. And I have one daughter, and she will be two in October.
Rebecca: Yeah, that's coming up. How exciting.
Erin: Oh, it's so weird. I can't believe she's that old. Yeah, she's like 2 going on 16.
Rebecca: I hear ya, yes, so good. And so, so much of our coaching together has been really to figure out how to balance life, and figure out how to stay at the level that you're at in work. In terms of the effectiveness of your work, as well as the productivity, and to not sacrifice your family and your time with Kennedy and so forth, in order to maintain that.
And we talked about this just last week, and I thought it was such a great illustration, it bought something to mind for me, about how before kids, when we're career driven, our job is like our baby on some level, right?
And so we give so much attention and love to our careers. That's a great thing. There's a lot of healthiness to it, and so forth.
But then this kid comes into the picture, and your allegiance has to change. There's this process that we have to go through in order to figure out how to maintain the quality of our work and the productivity and all of that stuff with something else being the actual central priority.
“Putting all my energy into work..”
Erin: Yeah. I worked at Somantel for 12 years. And like I said, I grew up at the agency. I was single when I started and I didn't know Drew, so that was what I put so much energy in. And the reason I'm at where I'm at today is because of that energy and the work that I put in and the relationships I made.
And so then, when I became a mom, it was about five months before COVID. Right? So I became a mom at a really weird time. So not only was I trying to figure out how to be a mom, and then I went back from maternity leave, I'm only there a couple months, and the world shuts down.
“...so much of my identity is wrapped up in my work…”
And it was so crazy, because when I was on maternity leave, again, that was my identity. I'm a mom, but so much of me and all my coworkers would tell you this, I'm a bit of a control freak. I can't stand not knowing what's going on. So on maternity leave, I'd be messaging like where did this project land? I'm just curious, what's going on? Because so much of my identity is wrapped up in my work. And so I didn't really feel like myself when I was at home during maternity leave, right? I needed more people.
And so when I came back, it was January. And I was so excited to come back. And it was hard. Obviously, it was just this weird new thing. All working moms kind of know this, right? You are sacrificing time with your kid for your job, or you feel like that's a sacrifice. So it was a struggle.
“I started to feel like myself again.”
But at the same time, I started to feel like myself again, because I had my people and I still got to go home and hug Kennedy and spend that quality time with her. And then two months in, it's like, wait, we're on lockdown. There's a pandemic. This is a whole new thing.
So I just started feeling like myself, and then that happened. So when we started talking, it was a few months after that. And I was on that roller coaster of emotion and trying to figure out how to find this balance? This is so new and then to do it in this pandemic world was crazy. Oh my gosh.
Rebecca: Well, I think you have and the reason why I really wanted to bring you particularly onto this podcast, because I think there is such a very clear transformation that you've gone through in from feeling a life very out of sorts, and out of balance, and that period of confusion that lasts for so many career driven women when they become moms, from..’I'm just trying to figure out what you know, what do I do? And how do I make this all happen?’.. To now, I feel like it's such an amazing transformation you've been on.
I feel like you have so much to offer. And we've already talked about one tool, and I want to dive into a little bit about what are some of the main things that you've done in order to get to this place of balance, and how we would narrow them down?
And we've talked about one already, which was the tool of recognizing emotions that come up, particularly icky emotions and not pushing them away and dealing with them in the moment so that they don't affect absolutely everything that you do after that. So that’s one thing we've already talked about that I love.
The first thing we talked about, when we were prepping for this interview was, setting your boundaries and sticking to them. And you said to me, just decide you're gonna leave at five and then just leave at five.
How knowing your value shapes your time at work.
Erin: Who knew you were in control of that? I can't believe I'm actually in control of me leaving the building.
Yeah, I think because I was so used to it for 12 years - like, you know, I had some boundaries, of course. But, I would do whatever it took to make sure we got the job done. And getting the job done to me meant doing all the things for all the people. And that's not healthy.
And so, with a baby at home, it feels really bad when you only have three hours with that child out of daycare before she goes to bed, and then you're trying to finish some things up at work before you get home.
“...I tried to start setting some boundaries for myself.”
And so one of the things that I think I realized through time was, as I tried to start setting some boundaries for myself, I would feel guilty, like what will people think? Like I'm not working hard enough? And there must be some value in me working harder and working more.
One thing that helped me with that is we talked a lot about my values, and what my job is at my company and why people value me, why I'm in the role I'm in. And I think one of the things that I realized is I don't think people are going to say we value Erin because she stays until 6:30, that's not it. But, my energy that I bring and the connections I'm able to make, they value those things. Not the exact amount of time I log on and off.
And one of the things that I think through your coaching, it helped me realize when I walk into work in the morning, if I worked late the night before and never shut off, my energy coming in that next day sucked.
And if they're paying me for some of those things that are in my values and the things that they value me for, and my energy is one of them and being able to have tough conversations, I can't do that first thing in the morning when I've stayed late and I've worked longer than I should on things that probably I didn't really need to work on just because I felt like people wanted to see me working hard or see the time that I spent on things.
“...through this coaching, it helped me realize what my purpose is...”
And so I think through this coaching, it helped me realize what is my purpose here, focus on that it's not about time, and that helped me keep some of those boundaries. So that was one thing.
Rebecca: I want to pause there because I always like to say; your company pays you for your brain. They don't pay you to do everything for everyone and even to check more things off of your to do list.
I mean technically, they're not paying you for that, they're paying you for your brain and what's inside of it and your expertise and your knowledge and your ability to prioritise and your ability to strategically decide what's most important and what's not. That's what they're really paying you for. They're not paying you to sit there and literally do a checklist, right?
So, of course you got to get stuff done. Like we're not excluding the fact that needs to get done. But ultimately the thing that drives that is your brain and so recognising what is the value that my particular brain brings to this company? What's the value that it brings to this world?
Diving into your values and your identity and your purpose.
We dive deep into talking about your values and your identity and your purpose and really coming up with some very clear language for you to start to be able to describe yourself and what your value is.
So that in these moments at five o'clock, when you're like, I really gotta get out the door, you can go and you believe. You can come back to those words and those beliefs about yourself and say, I still have a tonne of stuff done, I'm walking away mid project, and I will be much better off and the company is going to be much better off tomorrow. If I leave right now, that's what I'm gonna do.
Erin: Yeah. And that's so powerful too. I even feel like it's clicked for me even more in the past few months. Setting boundaries is like, you just have to commit. And I found that when I actually did it, when I actually shut down - and the big thing for me was telling my team I'm doing it, because one of the things that's really hard for me is I never want to feel like I'm not helping someone or I'm not online for them, or there when they need me.
But guess what, when you actually tell someone, hey, I don't work between 5 and 7:45, 8 at night, because that's my sacred time with my kid. They are like, Okay, great. I'll reach out to you tomorrow. Like, Oh, wow. So if I actually tell you that, you respect that, and it's the thing that wasn't so hard.
So part of it, for me, was just communicating. Hey, guys, this is my time with Kennedy. Unless it's a huge emergency, I'm probably not gonna see any messages you send me. And for me, it was so much for me to communicate that. And the reception back to that, and the respect back from that was huge. And I'm like, oh, people value the fact that I am shutting down, and I am going and spending time with my family.
And I think that was just a belief that I had in my own head that I had to work through. No one was putting that in my head, but myself.
Getting comfortable with disappointment.
Rebecca: Yeah. Well you are certainly not the only one that holds this belief. The saying no, the saying I can't do that today, the denying meeting requests, all of that, everybody feels on some level a discomfort with doing that.
You don't just hit it and go; well, screw you, that feels great. You know, of course you don’t do that. You hit and you're like, Oh, I'm so sorry, I can't be there for you, you're not a priority today.
That feels icky to say, but your company is paying you to make that call and to save your energy and to know what your brain needs to be used for. And so, of course, there's discomfort with that.
Being okay with other people being disappointed.
And that was one of the other things that we talked a lot about is just being willing for other people to be disappointed and to have that be uncomfortable. And for you to be disappointed and feel that feeling that comes up when you have to say no. And that you're not gonna feel great about it. But it's okay to feel sad and icky about that.
Erin: Yes, and to just accept that that's a reaction that will happen. I think for so long, I was like, Okay, how can I get through the day and the week making sure that no human is ever sad or unhappy - and that's just not reality.
And so I think sometimes going into a circumstance and saying, this is going to suck, they're going to be a little disappointed, and I'm going to be disappointed - just accepting that reality is enough to get through it. And the other thing is me saying no, and me not being involved in certain things, in some ways, helped my team grow.
Rebecca: Tell us way more about that, because that's a lot. I love that thought.
Erin: Well, I've been in this current role for two years and I think a part of me was still trying to do my previous role.
When I was in the work, I was managing a set of clients, making calls on everything for specific projects. And so it's a tough transition when you go from that to overseeing the whole department and understanding what decisions I should be making and what decisions should be account planner - my former role, what decision should that person be making? And it's hard sometimes to step back and let them make decisions that may be a little different than the decisions that you would make.
Rebecca: Always, just like your husband's going to clean the house differently than you are and that’s okay.
Erin: Oh my gosh, we could do a whole podcast on how my husband cleans the house and how I clean the house, but that's for another day.
So I think it's really interesting because one of the people that reports to me, I worked with him for a really long time. And I was totally a pain in his ass. I was just so in the work with him, driving decisions, I was in it too much.
And of course, I was crazy busy and was overwhelmed. But yet he's fully capable. But I had to be there. I learned a tonne from him, because he's like, hang on a second - I feel like you don't have faith in me to get this done. And at the end of the day, I may go about it in a completely different way, but I think we would end up at the same place. Can you just let me do this and trust me to do it?
And I'm like, wow, yes. And of course, I trust him. It was just this feeling of like, no, I need to help you, I need to make sure you need me. I love that I have a transparent enough relationship with my team that he felt comfortable saying, like, hey let me do this. Let me show you, I can do this. And I was like, you're right.
And so in those moments when I backed out, he killed it. He did an awesome job. He did it a little differently than I would have done. But it was great. It was probably better than if I would have had my hands in it.
And so that was an awesome learning moment for me that I learned from someone who reports to me. And it was like, thank you for calling me out on my shit, I'm glad we can be transparent, I'm glad we can have this because it only makes each other better.
Take on less work, be more productive and maintain the same level in your career.
Rebecca: When you got to this point, when you finally were able to put up some of the boundaries - which is the first step we have to get there.
First, we have to get to this point where you say; no, I’m leaving at 5, where you start denying meetings, all for the sake of raising efficiency and productivity at work, but not working more hours. That's the goal. So when you were finally able to do that, it opened up this next set of conversations - and so many people that listen to this podcast are leaders and managers of people.
And that opened up a question of what do I need to do so that my team feels equipped, and I don't have to be in this meeting anymore? Or so that they never have to feel like they have to come to me? What do I need to communicate? What kind of skills do I need to improve in them? How do I boost their confidence so they can do it?
We were talking about that for new people on your team and the experts on your team, and problem solving. How do you still maintain the level of productivity that you want as a whole for your department, and you don't do the work anymore?
The big shift when we become moms.
Because that's really the big shift that happens after we become moms is we want to figure out how to take on less so we can be more productive, and still maintain at the same level, right?
But we couldn't have had those conversations until you did that because they would have all been theoretical. On some level, I don't think your brain would have been able to problem solve strategically and think about that. Until I'm not going to stay late for that meeting. So now what do I need to do? And all of a sudden, you have now a much more equipped team that is much more productive as a whole. And you're not the one doing all the work?
Erin: Yeah. And when I was still working through that, and it didn't come, I feel like a lot of it now is easy for me to make those decisions. But, when I was working through it and trying to let myself leave at 5 or let my team do the work, I would write down sometimes, what are they paying me for? For my brain? That was the question I would ask. What are my bosses actually paying me for? And of the list of things that I have that I'm a little overwhelmed by right now. Two of them are the things they're paying me for, they're paying me to solve the problem. They're paying me to deal with the question. And it was like, Wow, it's really that simple.
Rebecca: I want to make sure everybody paused and heard that. When you're looking at an overwhelming to-do list, one way to help you figure out what to do is to stop and ask, ‘what am I actually being paid to do here?’ Such a great question.
Erin: It's so funny too, because it's like, I can very easily help mentor and coach my team and tell them the things that they don't need to be doing. Or even other departments.
I work with a strategist a lot and they come to me and I'm like, that's something somebody on my team should be doing. You don't waste your brain space with that, because your brain needs to be focused on this. It’s so easy for me to tell other people that.
And then I'm like, oh, wait a minute, maybe I should be having this conversation with myself. There's so many things that I am doing, that we are paying our account planners or strategists to do, not me, that's not why I'm here. That's not my value to the company. But that's hard.
Because I think when we started, I wanted my value to the company to be literally in every area, you know what I mean? When you do that and you spread yourself in all of those areas, you're not doing anything really well.
Prioritizing you.
Rebecca: Right! Which is why we start so very clearly in diving into:
What makes you you?
What are your strengths?
What are your values?
What kind of value do you bring to the table?
Because you have to know that in order to start making some of these decisions around where you can say no, and where you can't, and, and so forth.
Recognizing what's important to you as a human being.
And a word that you would use a lot and have used a lot more recently, as we've talked, is about how far you've come has been the word priorities. Knowing what is most important to you. And some of that is recognising what's important to you as a human being, and where that brings you that kind of energy.
And always it's like the things that bring you energy are the things that usually are your strengths that you bring to the table naturally - those things go hand in hand. When you start to be able to name those.
And you, you definitely went through a process of thinking about what are my priorities?
What are my priorities at my work?
What are my priorities as a mom?
What are my priorities in our household?
What's priorities in our marriage?
What do I think is top of the list?
Talk a little bit about that process for you…
Erin: At the beginning of the process I think it's overwhelming. I'm the kind of person that has to write things down. So when we were in our sessions, I always had my little notebook off to the side. And I’m jotting things down.
I think when we started, I was so overwhelmed by all the things that I thought were priorities, that even writing them down was overwhelming. It felt like such an exhaustive list. But, I kept on going back to what's really important, and reminding myself that in this list of priorities, it's not actually humanly possible to do all these things.
So it's not that you don't want to or that people are gonna think poorly of you, because you don't do them. It's just that's not even actually a thing you could accomplish. So let's actually look at this logically and take some emotion out of it. And think through what are the things that literally could fall off the list and it would never matter? What's the least amount of damage that could be done on these things, you know?
And so for me, when we started, I literally was writing lists almost daily to help me get through that process. I don't do it as much now, I feel like I don't have to always write it down. I can kind of do it in my own head.
Rebecca: What kind of things would you write down?
Erin: I would literally have a list of things that I didn't get done today. And it could be super tactical stuff, right? And then like, my home life came in - like, oh, the clothes are in the dryer and have been there for 4 days. Drew's probably really annoyed with me that the clothes are in the dryer - he doesn't care. It's just all these little tactical things.
And then just looking at that list, home life and work life, it's like, what can give? What does no one give a shit about if I took those off the list? These are not important. You just are assigning yourself to them because you think someone might care about them.
“...maybe I could actually ask for help…”
And so I think me going through that process and saying, there's got to be a handful of things that only I can do. And what are those things and make those your priorities. Certainly replying back to certain emails, and we all have the tactical stuff that we have to address - but there were so many things on my list that other people could do and should do because it's their job. Or maybe I could actually ask them for help. Instead of feeling like I always have to help them.
Same goes for my husband, like my poor husband is like, if you just asked me to do the thing. I'd do this thing, it doesn't bother me. I'll do the dishes every night. Do you need my help? And it's like, oh, I guess if I just ask people for help, sometimes they're happy to help. And it doesn't always have to be me that's the helper.
I can also ask for help, especially when it's from a job perspective, when it's stuff my team should do, or things that I want my team to grow in, I shouldn't be doing those things. I was making a lot of lists, Rebecca. I’m the list making Queen over here, but it helped.
Fix that internal dialogue in order to create a life of balance.
Rebecca: Yes well, it got it out of your brain, and you looked at it, and you were like; wait a second. Hmm, what do I really think about this, what is really important here? It allowed you to do some evaluative work, to figure out what your brain thought.
For sure, important and urgent, like you need to get them all done, and you're not getting them done. And so now you're feeling completely inadequate, and like a failure, and you're disappointing everyone out there, like your brain, for sure, thought all of those things, and it felt very extreme.
And talking about it now, of course, we know that wasn't true. That was what your brain was offering to you, was that everybody was disappointed in you. You can't get enough done. You're failing on all fronts.
We can't create balance from that place, right? You have to fix that internal dialogue going off in order to create a life of balance ultimately, because that's what eats away at us is all of those thoughts and those feelings about ourselves.
Erin: Yeah, and it was all in my head. I just had to pause and think through it, or sometimes just affirmations too. I would say to my boss; I know, you asked me to do this. I don't think I'm the best person to do this after I've thought this through. And I don't really have the time to do it. Being able to say that to my boss, and then having her respond back and be like, yeah, you're right. I'll follow up with somebody else. Like, oh my God, I guess I can do that.
But it just took me having to sit back and think about it. And I don't know if you remember this, but I literally had a list in my notebook. And there were four or five questions that I had to ask myself to decide if something is a priority. I wish I had it with me.
Rebecca: We had an entire session over that where I said you're creating filters. Because you always felt like you were supposed to do everything for everyone. And you were feeling so terrible about yourself for like, no, you're not allowed to do something unless it fits one of these four categories. And we figured out what those four categories were, those four questions to ask yourself and here's the filter. If it's making sense all the way through then go for it.
“...I had a weight lifted from me…”
Erin: Yeah, exactly. And as I stopped doing some of the things that I would always do, or I actually committed to those boundaries. A week later, two weeks later, three weeks later, I realized the world didn't end, everything was fine. I had a weight lifted from me. I don't feel so overwhelmed. So sometimes it just took the time to do the thing and see that nothing terrible happened.
Rebecca: The worst case scenario...was nothing happened.
Erin: Yeah, nothing happened. Worst case scenario a lot of times is an uncomfortable moment. Right? When you tell someone no, or you feel like you're disappointing someone, it's like, the worst possible thing that can happen is you're gonna have a moment that you have a conversation with someone and it gets uncomfortable. That moment passes, the next day you move on, it's fine. You addressed it, you just have to know that there's going to be an uncomfortable moment.
Facing discomfort head on.
Rebecca: I love it. So much of our decision making is about avoiding discomfort. Our brain wants to avoid it at all costs. It’s focus is ‘let me keep you safe, let me keep you comfortable’. And anything that it perceives as being potentially disappointing, your brain is gonna want to put up a wall to it.
And so, which is why that willingness of going through the process of figuring out, how does Erin want to handle this moment and be compassionate and kind to herself, and allow her to move past this so that she can handle the discomfort of this conversation. And I've seen now she's going to have a moment with herself that she's going to be nice and kind and then she's going to move on.
And you knew that you could do that. And then you stopped avoiding all the discomfort and you faced it head on.
And half the time, you realize it wasn't even that bad. They just said, okay great. We'll just do it tomorrow and there wasn’t an uncomfortable moment. Or they say, you're right. You shouldn't be doing that. Let me give that to somebody else. Great. It wasn't really bad at all.
Erin: Exactly. It’s so fun Rebecca. I wish you could come and sit in some of my meetings with my team and see, because I am coaching them on the same thing you were coaching me on. I feel so evolved, look at me helping people with stuff I needed help with.
Learning the tools to coach yourself.
Rebecca: So good, I love that! I love the idea that the coaching continues and that you ultimately learn how to self coach yourself. It’s a big thing that I as a coach want to instill in anybody that I work with, giving them the tools to not always have to depend on me as a coach or hiring a coach to figure out their own stuff. I want to give you the tools to do this on your own so that you feel the empowerment and ownership over how to create the life that you want for yourself.
And of course this will evolve over the years. Kennedy will get older, new challenges will be faced, but the tools will still be there as life evolves and circumstances change for you to continue to decide, okay, what’s most important? Where do I bring the most value now? What goals do I want to set today?
You will have to go through a process of re-evaluating all those things and you know how to do that now, and you know what are the roadblocks that get in the way of you usually being able to hold your boundaries and set your priorities. You know how to deal with that.
Erin: Yes, totally. And I think it will be interesting to see as my life changes and evolves - even right now, figuring out what my values are and right now what people value in me, how does that change? And making sure that I evolve with that too. Even the whole ‘what are they paying me for?’ conversation I have with myself may change. They might pay me for something totally different in a couple of years.
Rebecca: Yes, you need to evolve that for sure. One thing you said to me when we were talking last week, ‘how will my kid describe me in a year from now, 10 years from now, 15 years from now..’, And it was kind of juxtaposed against ‘what is my team going to think about me?’, and which question here is more important to me as I try to make some of these decisions to create balance.
Erin: And that whole thing came up when I was telling you about the pivotal moment for me - well of course all your coaching was a pivotal moment, but the one that stood out for me was my kid helping me understand what is most important.
Kennedy was probably only 16 months or so, and it was one of those busy days at work and I had to come and pick her up from daycare and there was still some work outstanding. I picked her up from daycare but I'm still on the phone. She's in the backseat talking and I'm trying to make this call, we pull into the driveway, hang up from the call, get inside and I’m like ok, how can I entertain her? I have her in my lap, a book in my hand and my phone in the other and I am messaging my team.
“...This is NOT my work time..”
Kennedy is getting frustrated because I'm not reading to her, I’m disengaged from my team, and finally at a certain point, Kenedy, as a baby, looks at me and she was pissed. She hit that phone out of my hand and said READ. And I was like, you’re right Kennedy, this is your time. This is not my work time. This is my sacred time for you.
At that moment, I could have felt guilty but I was like, right now, I need to change my behavior because I don't want her to look back in 10/15 years and look at me as the mom who had her on one side, and the computer on the other. That is not what I want for her. Thank God she did that because it was a perfect disruption.
Rebecca: I love that, a perfect disruption of what you were doing, the habits and the boundaries that were not working for you and things began to shift after that.
“I started to be more communicative to my team about the boundaries I set up.”
Erin: Yeah. And from that moment on I also started to be more communicative to my team about the boundaries I was setting up. And saying to them, I certainly will log back on around 7, as that was my commitment to you. But it was sharing my boundaries around my new schedule and everyone respected that.
And even some of my team said, yeah I need to do that too, my kids are getting older and they’re noticing I’m working so much at home. And I think as a leader, when you actually show that behavior and make it acceptable, then your team realizes that that is what we want for them.
I don’t want my team to work every night until 8pm and not spend time with their family. Because in the end they are going to be so unhappy and not be good performers at work either.
“I feel so much better about life, work and mom life…”
I think me taking a stand and communicating that, made it ok for some people. I am so glad I did. I feel so much better about life, work and mom life, and that is all because of those boundaries. And I’m actually fully present in those moments now.
Rebecca: I was curious about a shift that may have happened in that moment and how you are feeling about yourself as a mom? Because that is a huge piece about creating balance in your life.
If you’re feeling really crappy as a mom and like you’re letting them down, there’s not enough time, you’re not giving them all they need - and you have all of these scripts on the base level is failure, you carry that into work with you. So, I'm curious about the shifts that you had around your thought of yourself as a mom?
How coaching helped Erin.
Erin: I feel like I am the best mom for Kennedy. We were made for eachother. I feel so much more confident in everything I do as a mom.
It’s those moments when you don't have your phone or your computer and you are so focused, the way she looks at me makes me know that I am killing it as a mom right now.
And there are those moments when it’s the biggest shit show moments, but at the same time I am dropping Kennedy off at daycare, and the look that she has when I'm saying goodbye, it's like okay, I’m doing a good job. Even if this morning was a crazy town. It’s okay, I’m doing my job. I am a good mom. And that makes me feel better when I go to work everyday.
“...I’m more confident now because I like who I am now…”
And I’m just more confident now because I think I like who I am now, more than I ever have before. I am way more at peace with everything, like decision making. One of my bosses described me yesterday at my mid-year evaluation as calm. And this is coming from my boss who is the calmest guy ever. And that’s awesome, and other people are feeling that too and I’m able to bring that calm to my team and help them make decisions in a better way.
Rebecca: So let’s recap here. I want to make sure after all the things we have talked about; what you’re saying is that you are feeling amazing about yourself as a mom, you feel super clear around what you bring to your company and what your strengths are, and where your priorities lie. You are leaving work at 4:30 every day.
You have empowered your team to do more tasks, so you are doing less of the busy work and much more of the work that you should be doing, so work feels more exciting and empowering for you.
And, I know overall you’re working less and achieving at the same level and you just got a glowing review that says you’re doing awesome, you're calmer, clearer and more of a leader than you ever have been before.
“...I am working less hours but getting way more done than I was…”
Erin: Yes totally. I think the thing that is so crazy is, you could have looked at my schedule and seen the amount of hours I was putting in a year ago, but when you compare the efficiency to now, I am working less hours but getting way more done than I was. And I’m empowering my team, they are doing such a great job, it’s awesome to see.
Rebecca: So it’s not just that you are more productive, as a whole, your whole team is more productive. You have become the leader they need to rise up.
Erin: Yeah for sure. And they have helped me so much too. It’s all about transparency and communication, it's been awesome.
Rebecca: So good. Oh Erin, this has been so fun to talk about and to hear so candidly your process and what has worked for you, and how you have gotten to this point. There is so much to celebrate in your transformation in less than a year, in the middle of C0VID! I am so proud of the work that you’ve done, it’s amazing and I appreciate you coming here and sharing.
“...The last couple of weeks have been life changing…”
Erin: It’s been so awesome. My boss asked me how the coaching was going and the story I would tell kept on evolving as I was growing. The last couple of weeks I’ve been like, it’s been life changing. At the core I’m the same person, but I have grown so much I feel like a much better version of myself for me, my kid, my husband and my team. And so that has been huge. And I feel so much better about life.
Rebecca: Any parting words for listeners out there?
Set your boundaries and stick to them.
Erin: I guess my biggest thing is the boundaries thing, it is so true. Literally you are the only person in your way. Set the boundaries, let people know about them and they will accept it and you will become so much better for it. It was so hard for me to set them, but once I did, that little tiny thing that I did in setting a boundary had such an impact. It was so easy in the end.
