Letting Go of Rumination and Finally Feeling in Control (with Mike Garcia)

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This week on the podcast, I’m doing something I’ve never done before — I’m interviewing a working dad.  

 

Mike is a coaching client who came into our work stuck in his head, overwhelmed by pressure, and caught in constant rumination. In this conversation, he shares what it actually looked like to question the stories running his life, stop chasing external validation, and learn how to pivot out of spirals faster. We talk about the real tools that helped him feel calmer, more focused, and more present at work and at home.

If you’ve ever felt stuck replaying the same thoughts on repeat or carrying stress from one part of your life into the next, this episode will hit close to home.  

What We Cover:

  • Why rumination keeps ambitious parents stuck and how to interrupt it 

  • The hidden cost of constantly seeking validation at work 

  • How to separate work stress from home life (even in hybrid or remote jobs) 

  • Simple mindset pivots that bring calm, clarity, and control 

  • What real balance looks like when you stop believing every thought you have 

Links + Next Steps

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Transcript

This week on the podcast, I am doing something I have never done before. I am interviewing a man. Yes, I am interviewing a working dad, not a working mom.

Mike is a client of mine who came into coaching carrying a mind full of rumination, pressure, and stories he thought were simply true.

And in our work together, I pushed him hard, again and again and again, to question every assumption he had about himself, his stress, and what he believed he should be doing. And the transformation he created that he speaks about in this interview is remarkable.

In our conversation, Mike talks openly about how he stopped letting every story in his head run his life, and how he learned to validate himself instead of chasing reassurance.

And the simple tools that helped him finally feel in control of his focus, his emotions, and his decisions.

If you've ever been stuck in your head, spiraling, overthinking, or believing the same old narrative on repeat, then this episode is one you're going to want to hear.

Are you ready? Let's get to it.

Welcome to the Ambitious and Balanced Working Moms podcast, your go to resource for integrating your career ambitions with life as a mom, I'm distilling down thousands of coaching conversations I've had with working moms just like you, along with my own personal experience as a mom of two and sharing the most effective tools and strategies to help you quickly feel calm, confident, and in control of your ambitious working mom life. You ready? Let's get to it.

Rebecca: Well, well, well, working moms. I am so excited because I have a treat for you today. For the very first time ever, I am not speaking to a working mom on this podcast. I am speaking to a working dad.

This is Mike. I'm gonna let Mike intro himself here in a moment, but I'm excited for you all to hear about him and his experience with me in coaching and all the things that he learned. He is going to bring some great insight and storytelling here, I know.

So thank you for being here, Mike.

Mike: Oh, well, thanks for having me. This will be fun.

Rebecca: Yes, it's going to be fun. We're already laughing quite a lot because I already butchered your last name, and it required a retake here. So I'm gonna have you intro yourself instead. So tell us, Mike, a little bit about you.

About Mike

Mike: Well, I'm Mike Garcia. I am the director of client services at Simantel, which is a marketing agency in Peoria, Illinois. I have been married to my beautiful wife for a little over 22 years now, and we've got two awesome kids. I have a daughter who just turned 16, so I'm now dealing with a driver in the house. And I have a son who's 10, almost 11, and they're both super busy and active and into everything.

Rebecca: I love that. It's been fun to work with you because I get just, like, this little glimpse of what's next for me, because my kids are, you know, 8 and 11. And so you're just a hair ahead, and it's like, oh my gosh, that's what's to come. I know. So fun to hear. To hear about that.

So I connected with Mike because I have a relationship with Simantel. I've coached, gosh, almost 25 people or so at Simantel, an amazing marketing agency in Peoria. And so I get the honor of coaching several people in their company.

And Mike was one that I have coached recently that desired coaching, right? We don't force coaching on anyone, but it gave him the opportunity, and he decided to take them up on that.

Tell us a little bit about where you were when we first started working together and what kind of intrigued you about coaching and maybe even, you know, what led you to say, yeah, I think let's. Let's try this thing. Sure.

Why Mike Came to Coaching

Mike: I'll start with the latter part of that question. So I have. Obviously, I've been here for going on 11 years, so I've been here the entire time you've been coaching people at Simantel. Many of my coworkers, both peers and leaders, have worked with you. And I've always heard them talk about coaching with Rebecca and the great outcomes that they've gotten from it.

And it was just one of those things that I finally just. And I will be real honest, at the time that I was hearing about it, it was never. It was always, it's professional coaching. It wasn't that it was working moms coaching.

Rebecca: Yeah.

From Professional Coaching to Personal Clarity

Mike: So when I reached out to HR, I'm like, hey, if there would ever be an opportunity, I would, you know, love to take a crack at it. They said, sure, you know, and they kind of set it up. And you and I met, and it was in our first conversation that you were talking about it, and I was like, am I in the right place? You know, like, is this. Is this the right thing for me?

But, you know, we just decided to go for it.

I think what drew me to it is I'm a person who likes answers. I don't do well with unknowns. So if there are things that are, and that kind of goes with everything, but for me personally, if there's something going on with me personally that's like, hey, this is bothering me or this doesn't feel quite right and I can't figure out what it is or how to solve it, then I want to find someone or something to help me maybe not solve it, but identify what it is, come up with so that I've got a plan, and then I can go from there.

And I think that's the thing that really kind of drew me to it because there was just a lot of things that were, I don't know, kind of felt all over the place. I'd been here for a long time. As I mentioned, you know, we're super busy at home. We have a super busy family life and our house and, you know, just kind of keeping up with everything.

And so, you know, and I'm a very active, hands-on dad and husband and, you know, person around the house. So there was a lot of it that as we talked, I realized like, hey, this doesn't just apply to moms. You know, like maybe certain things are different.

But, you know, I know there's a lot of dads in the same position I am. We're all juggling a ton. And I have a wife who has a very busy, important job. So she's got things too.

Juggling Leadership, Family Life, and the Mental Load

She works from home, works remotely about 100% of the time. So there are things at home that kind of default to her to handle. You know, like when the kids get off the bus and if there's a call from school or this, that, and the other.

And so for me, when I'm in the office, even though we have kind of a hybrid schedule, there's a part of me that feels like, hey, when I get home, if you've been having to deal with some of these things throughout your workday just by default because you're at home, I need to kind of step in now and give you a chance.

If you need to catch up on things, if there's other things you need to do. So there's just, you know, there's just a lot to juggle.

And there was a lot of things that were feeling kind of off. And so, you know, just through conversation and talking to other people, they were like, hey, this was great.

I thought, you know what, I'm going to give it a shot if it's something that Simantel is willing to do for their employees.

And as a leader now in the agency, I felt it's important to kind of be my best self for the people that I manage and, you know, for everyone around me.

Coaching Working Dads and Working Moms: Ambitious and Balanced

Rebecca: Yeah, I love that. And you're right, the challenges of a working dad and a working mom are obviously not entirely dissimilar. Obviously, there are some unique challenges related to women culturally, all sorts of things, obviously, as there are for men as well in expectations and things like that that are different for men than there are for women.

But at the end of the day, the solution, if you will, is very similar. And I hear that from men that do listen to this podcast and or husbands, because a lot of wives will say that they listen, they get their husband to listen to the podcast or things like that. And they'll say this really applies, you know, across the board to any parent. And for sure it does.

And so it's just been such a pleasure to coach with you. It's a lot of fun.

And when I engage, just for listeners that don't know this, when I engage with employers who are sponsoring coaching for their employees, it's not just for women. It can obviously be for men. The coaching relationship shifts a little bit there.

But ultimately the kinds of things that we worked on together were the same things I work on with, you know, all of my clients on some level.

And I love the way you framed that. You're a very hands-on, active, present father. No doubt you are. And you are still all into work and wanting to show up and do your best at work and deliver everything that you said you were going to deliver.

And so how do you manage both of those goals at the same time, right? And how do you do it well?

That was a lot of the central focus of our coaching, which is what we're all about here, being ambitious and being balanced, right?

 

Mike: Absolutely, absolutely.

The Push and Pull of Work-Life Balance as a Working Parent

Rebecca: So if you were to think back to some of the real, like tangible, work-life balance struggles or things like that that were going on earlier in our time together, just to give us a hint at a couple of those examples, what would you tell us a little bit about the push and pull that you were experiencing?

Mike: I think that there was, I mean, a big part of it for me was finding separation. You know, like if we had had a rough morning at home, getting up and getting everyone out the door and everywhere where they needed to go, not carrying that into the office with me.

And on the reverse, if I'd had like a really challenging day, a lot of problems, you know, a lot of things coming at me from different angles, being able to leave that here or leave it on the road somewhere between here and home before I got home so that I didn't walk in carrying that frustration and especially so on.

You know, I think I had mentioned earlier, we work hybridly. So I work from home Mondays and Fridays. And so that's a lot easier to carry that home when you're already at home, to walk out into the hallway and still be frustrated by what happened.

Rebecca: Yeah.

From Front-Line Visibility to Behind-the-Scenes Leadership

Mike: Or, you know, something and vice versa. So I think that was a big thing for me. And just trying to struggle to figure out, I mean, I know at work for me was trying to figure out, like, exactly where do I fit and how do I make sure I'm providing value?

I think a little bit, real quick backstory, it's like when I, the majority of my time at Simantel, from the time I started until moving into this leadership role, I was in a client-facing account planner role. So a lot of what you do in that role is you've got a lot of focus and attention on everything you're doing.

You're dealing with the clients. The client's watching you. You're dealing with everybody in the agency. So you're very on the front lines.

And when I moved into my leadership, it was a much more kind of operational type position, which I loved and is something that I really thrive in. But it's also much more of a backstage type of a role.

And that was a big adjustment because for me, I'm like. And it was a new role too, that had been created for me.

Rebecca: Created for you? Yeah.

Seeking Validation in a New Leadership Role

Mike: So there was a lot of like, am I doing what your expectation is? Am I meeting your expectations for this role? Am I providing value? Because it wasn't as tangible, and that I struggled with, you know, for a while as somebody who kind of likes to know and likes to have control.

And I think we talked really, really early on. You know, I use the word validation a lot. It's like I didn't need attention and accolades, but I wanted some validation. Like somebody be like, yep, you're on the right path.

Because I'm like, I'll keep blowing down the road, but I don't want to get to the end and somebody say, yeah, this isn't what we thought we wanted you to do.

So that was a big struggle for me.

Self-Validation vs. Waiting for External Validation

Rebecca: Let's talk about that one for a second because we did circle around that one for a lot.

And teaching my clients to have a mechanism of self-validation is one of the many conversations that comes up for my clients because we never want to be waiting around for our boss or someone else to tell us we're doing it right.

Like, that feels good. Please do tell me I'm doing it right. Like bosses out there, tell people that they're doing it right. Give them validation.

And we don't want that to be the only kind of mechanism that you have to feel like you're being successful and that you're doing things right. Otherwise, you kind of live in a land of questioning yourself all of the time.

And if you're kind of in a constant state of am I doing it right and wondering and not really answering or getting an answer to that question, that slowly degrades our confidence and all of the things like that.

And so I remember we came up with a phrase. What was the phrase that we came up with?

Redefining the Need for Validation

Mike: It was. And I still have it on a sticky note here on my computer. I keep it all the time.And we said that need for validation was an overdeveloped mechanism. It was just something that I defaulted to as, I don't know if excuse was the word that we used, but as a crutch, as to sit in this swirl of like, am I just being, like, yes, I'm doing it right, and having confidence in the people around me that if I'm doing it wrong or you need something else, you will tell me.

And that's not on me. That's on them. You know, like continue doing the best job that we did.

So I remember when we had that conversation and you said that. You said, you know, it's an overdeveloped mechanism. Something about that just stuck.

The Sticky Note That Shifted His Confidence at Work

And I literally, this was months ago. This was early, early, early on in our time. And I wrote it on that sticky note, and I stuck it on my monitor here on my computer in my office.

And if I was ever feeling that, I would look at that and I would just be kind of like, nope, you're good. You know, nobody's telling you otherwise.

And over time, I've realized that it's like if there have been things that somebody's reached out, like, hey, we really need your help with this, or here's something that we're hearing where we need support. I'm like, they're telling me when there's something that they need from this role.

Because everybody's trying to figure out, you know, we're building the plane as we fly it here with my role and how that impacts the agency.

So after a while, I'm like, no, they'll tell me if I'm veering off course or otherwise. I'm going to do what I think is best. I bring value to this role. I've got a lot of experience here and beyond. They wouldn't put me in this role if they were like, well, we don't know what he's going to do.

So just that little reminder and that little sticky note has helped me get out of that headspace with that whole, like, I'm not being validated. Is this right?

Practicing Self-Validation Instead of Constantly Seeking It

Rebecca: Right. Because the whole idea there, you know, an overdeveloped mechanism is we're saying, like, it's basically something you've just practiced. You practiced seeking validation over and over and over again.

And that's where you have gained confidence or certainty because other people have said that.

There's nothing wrong with that. You know, I'm not suggesting that that doesn't feel good or that we don't want that or there's anything wrong. We just want to develop some other mechanisms of validation, right?

We want you to be able to feel confident and confirm and feel that sense of certainty and success without other people having to constantly tell you all of the time, right?

So we just want to practice other ways.

And so what I'm hearing in this is that that gave you, it almost gave you permission to practice another way of doing it. To just say, actually, I could wait around for them to confirm this for me, or I could just make a decision and trust my intuition on this.

And I'm going to build that as a mechanism as well of validation, which obviously, as we know now, is way more empowering if you depend on yourself for your own validation than constantly seeking it from other people, right?

Rewiring the Need for Validation and Being Ready to Hear the Truth

Mike: Right. And I think a lot of that, you know, like over time when I've thought about that is some of it kind of stemmed from my first six-ish years or so here in that account planner type role.

There is a lot of, you're waiting for the client to validate that what you've done is what they need. You know, there is just a lot of built in. Not that you can't have confidence in the work you're doing, but it is like, you know, here's your final deliverable. You're waiting for somebody to say, perfect, exactly what I wanted, and not just, you know, take it and run.

So I think I got into this role and it just took a while. Like, oh yeah, nobody's going to tell you. They're looking to you now to be the person who is doing that and telling other people and helping to validate.

And so there was just a lot of that. And I didn't know that was until we had those conversations and we kind of realized like, yeah, that's just this mechanism. It's just the way you've trained your brain.

And that was actually probably one of the easier things that we did to change and pivot than some of the other things, you know, we did down the road. But there was something about that that just really resonated.

Rebecca: Yeah. You were ready to hear it, and you took it and ran with it.

Mike: Exactly. Yeah.

Rebecca: Oh gosh. I want to hear what were some of the harder things, though, Mike. Let's talk about that. That sounds juicy and good. What were some of the harder things we worked on together?

Mike: There were a lot of tough things that we worked about and worked on, and there were some conversations. I'll be, you know, bluntly, there were some times where we would be in a conversation or we'd get off the phone and I would be just kind of like frustrated by the fact that you weren't telling me what I wanted to hear.

Rebecca: I know. I remember exactly what those conversations were. And they were a little confronting. You know, I kind of pushed hard a couple of times against some of your kind of ways of thinking that I was not validating.

“That’s the Story You’re Telling Yourself”

Mike: And yeah, there was one meeting session that we had that I remember very well, that I came into it hot. Like, I had had a really rough morning with some things that were happening here, and I came in hot about this situation that had happened.

And I was telling you, and you just kind of looked at me, and you're like, well, that's the story you're telling yourself.

And I remember being just kind of like somebody knocked the wind out of my sails. And I wanted to be like, but I'm pissed about it. You know, like, I wanted somebody to validate that.

And you were just like, that's the story you're telling yourself.

Rebecca: As if it was factual. Like, yeah, that everybody would be pissed in this. And I was like, no, no, that just seems to be the perspective you're choosing here.

The Discomfort of Being Challenged in Coaching

Mike: Exactly. And there were some tough moments. In the moment, I can remember being like, all right, I'm done with that. Like, I'm not getting what I want. But whenever we would either talk through those or I would get off the session and think about it later, it was like once you can kind of calm down a little bit.

Again, I think that was one particular situation where I came in hot. Like, what had happened was super fresh. It wasn't like it had happened the week before and I'd had time to think about it and rationalize.

But as I kind of walked away from that, like, no, she's right. That's what I'm telling myself. I haven't gone back to this person and had further conversation. I haven't defended myself in this situation or whatever.

Rebecca: A lot of holes in things that you didn't, that actually weren't fact in this case.

Mike: Absolutely. Absolutely.

The Power of a Neutral Coach vs. Emotional Validation

Rebecca: That's normal for us to do, obviously. But it's my job as the coach to stay fairly neutral on these things.

I mean, I think it's one of the powers of coaching, that you're coming to a neutral party. And a lot of people will say that that's one of the reasons why they seek a coach. You know, that they're looking for someone because they don't want somebody in the weeds with them.

Even our spouses are in the weeds with us. Of course they should be. They should be siding with us, and they should be frustrated on our behalf and seeing our perspective and holding that perspective.

You know, a coach's job is to be able to hold space for how you feel and recognize that it could just be a story or that could just be a perspective or that there could be another way to think about it.

And to help hold neutrality so that the individual can think about it as they would like to think about it instead of being swept up into all of the emotion.

You know, there's a lot of power in that.

“I’m Thinking About This Way More Than They Are”: Breaking the Rumination Cycle

Mike: Yeah. And I think one of the things that we carried away is like, you know, basically I'm thinking about this situation probably far more than the other parties involved. Because, you know, the next day when I would see them, they're like, hey, how are you? I'm like, everybody else has got over it and moved on. And it wasn't that big of a deal. It was just this thing that happened, and I'm caught in this swirl in my head, and I'm frustrated by it.

And so that was tough.

And we talked about that a lot, even up until the end, like our final session. You know, one of the things that you had said to me is like goals and moving forward is like remembering the story you're telling yourself.

And so that was something that was a theme that carried through.

And it's something that I still do. I mean, there are still things that I will have a trigger reaction to. It's like I've done that for so long, that's kind of ingrained who I am.

But what I'm able to do now is stop it faster. Stop the way of thinking faster. Like sometimes, you know, something could happen in a conference room upstairs, and by the time I get back down to my office, I'm like, all right, this is what, you know.

And I'm already rationalizing with myself before I might have carried that on for days, for the rest of the day, for several days.

Rumination Robs Us of Joy and Presence

Rebecca: Rumination is such a common experience, certainly for women. Sounds like for men too on some level.

And so rumination is something that robs us of joy all of the time, right? When we can't learn how to take control of something that we're thinking about and thinking about and thinking about and thinking about and can't figure out how to let it go.

That really robs us of our presence, of our joy, of having fun, of all of the things.

We really do have to learn how to take back control of some of those stories and that rumination and learn to be much more in control of our thought life if we're going to experience balance, joy, all the things.

The Movie in Your Mind: When Overthinking Runs the Show

Mike: Absolutely. I call that, you know, like when I get in those modes, I always say, like, I'm stuck in my head. I've said it to my wife before. She'll be like, what's the matter? I'm like, I'm stuck in my head.

And I really worked hard at finding ways to get out of there faster because there would be times I'd be stuck in my head and, you know, if it was you and I that were having a disagreement, I'd be stuck in my head for so long. I'm inventing conversations that are happening months from now with the situation that, you know, like, I'm so far down the road and everybody else is like, what are you doing? Like, what are you talking about?

Because I've just gotten stuck and I'm building this movie in my mind that's so long. It's so epic. There's like part four out there. And everybody else is like, oh, that was just a preview. We're done. You know, we've moved forward.

So it's something, though, that I've really tried to remember.

And what I'm really working on now is trying to remember it faster with a goal of having it be more in the moment.

You’re Not Powerless in Your Thoughts: Recognizing Rumination as a Choice

Rebecca: I mean, I think that I'd be really curious how you'd storytell the process here on some level because, you know, when we started, I'm not sure you even saw that as a story.

I don't know if you saw some of that being stuck in your head as, you know, this is a perspective I'm holding on to that I can't let go of.

You know, you kind of saw it on a more factual level. You know, this is what happened, and it is happening to me. I can't let it go. Like, I don't have control over this.

And we had to, we, you know, if we were to piece this out a little bit, almost step by step. Step one was saying, hold on, hold on, hold on. No, no, that is not just happening to you. You're on some level choosing to ruminate on this and think about it in this way, right?

When Control and Avoiding Confrontation Create the Perfect Storm

Mike: And as someone who likes control, and when I say control, not control of others, control of myself, understanding the situation, knowing the facts, that's me. So somebody who likes to have control and who greatly dislikes confrontation, that is a formula to get stuck in your head for a really long time.

Because it's like I'm trying to find a way to be in control of this, and it's somebody else. It's Rebecca's upset with me about something. I can't control that, but I'm trying to control it. But I also don't like confrontation. So I don't want to go and say, hey, Rebecca, what's going on? What's happening? So it's the perfect storm, the perfect formula to just get stuck in your head.

And what I would do before is I would just let it roll out, and eventually my head gets tired and you let it go and you move on. But there's always that underlying current. And I think what I've done now is I've just kind of, in most situations, obviously still a work in progress, it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, but I've gotten better, I think, about being like, that's just the story I'm telling myself. I don't know her side of the story. I don't know his side of the story. I don't know the other side of the story. I don't know what's really going on.

So I have to make a choice. Do I want to confront this and maybe have the awkward conversation, or do I want to tell myself, hey, you know what? It's extenuating circumstances. Let's just move on and see what happens? 

So there's all sorts of different ways to handle it, but I think I've been able to get out of it faster than I was back then. And that, for me, has been huge.

Shortening the Gap Between the Story and the Shift

Rebecca: Yeah. So, I mean, if step one was kind of recognizing there was this kind of a story here going on to begin with and that, you know, I would imagine the next step, as you're describing it, is like recognizing that you could choose a different one on some level and even allowing your mind to open up to the idea that there's other perspectives here and I could take them if I wanted to, right?

And then moving on from there is trying to, you know, after the fact, which is a lot of times what we would do in coaching, is we would have, you know, the rumination would come in, and we would talk about what you were thinking about, and then we'd come up with another perspective, and then that would shift things for you and so you were able to let it go.

But we're talking about it in retrospect at this point, right? We're talking about it days, weeks after on some level.

And now what you're saying is you're really learning how to practice how fast you can notice when you're stuck in your head and you can't let something go. And that moment when you're like, oh, I can choose another perspective here, and I'm going to change my story and not sit with it like this, right?

And that time is getting shorter.

And the more you practice it, I always tell this to my clients, right, that it becomes a habit. It's like working out. You're getting better at lifting those weights, right?

So the time between the story happening and noticing it is getting shorter and shorter and shorter and shorter and shorter.

Using the Tools at Home and Work

Mike: Yep. And I'm doing that both at work and at home. And that's been cute, you know. I mean, we had a holiday event at our house last week, and in the about hour and a half to two hours-ish leading up to it, it was almost like a sitcom. Like everything that could have gone wrong was going wrong. Like there was all sorts of just kind of chaos and turmoil.

And you're in that moment like, why did we agree to do this? And we figured it all out, you know, within 10 minutes of everybody kind of walking in the door.

And a year ago, two years ago, I would have probably spent the rest of the evening at my house in my head about it and stewing about it and mad that it was like, this didn't go right. Now I'm tired. I got to deal with this or whatever.

And I was able to just be like, okay, all right. It is what it is. It's done. We've let it go.

And literally people walking in the door, and it wasn't me plastering a smile on my face like, hi, welcome to our house. Merry Christmas. Sit down. I was genuinely excited that people were there. We had a great evening.

And by the time everyone left and my wife and I were cleaning up, we were laughing about it. And I was like, we have to find the hidden camera. Like somewhere there must have been a camera in this house to film that chaos.

And we were laughing about it, whereas I would have still been mad about it, you know?

The Moment You See the Growth

And so I, and it was funny because in that moment, I didn't think about it. But in the last day or two, thinking about like, oh, we're going to be doing this podcast and kind of getting ready for it, that was a story. I'm like, oh, hey, that was something that just happened at home that was very relevant to the work that we did.

So it's been kind of on both sides of the spectrum that I've been using the tools.

Rebecca: Yeah, I love that. I'm curious, does your wife notice all these differences?

Mike: You know, I've never really asked her, like, hey, do you notice the difference? Because it's validation, I guess. I'm like, no, hey, I've got this. I'm doing well, but I certainly hope so. I guess that would be an interesting conversation to have

Rebecca: Interesting conversation, yeah. She can listen to this podcast and then we can ask her.

Mike: But I definitely think, though, if she was on here and you asked her, she would have agreed that like, oh yeah, Mike a while ago, that was uncharacteristic for him. You know, he still would have been, you know, chopped off about all that or whatever. And I just kind of was able to let it go. And yeah, so.

Rebecca: And I mean, obviously we're talking about letting it go as being what we want to do in these situations. But why, I'm curious, like the impact that as you have literally learned the skill set of kind of noticing when you're in your head and you're ruminating, figuring out the story, telling yourself a new perspective, moving on from it. Like, obviously we know that that's a good thing, but what has been the actual impact of that? Have you noticed?

What Changed: A Better Sense of Balance and Choosing What’s Worth His Energy

Mike: I think for me, it's just been, I mean, to steal your word, there's been a better sense of balance.

And I've been able to better assess. I haven't let everything go because obviously there are things that happen in your life that are frustrating situations that you can pivot out of feeling that way but are still something that like, I have to deal with this.

You know, like if I get a flat tire on the way home tonight, I can be mad about it and then I can pivot out of it. But at the end of the day, I'm still on the side of the road with a flat tire. I still have to deal with this problem.

So I think what this has helped me do is really helped me kind of evaluate what are the things that it's like, you know what, I can just let this go. It's fine. It's not worth my energy. It's not worth a piece of me dealing with the frustration.

And then what are the things that are worth another conversation, speaking up if I feel like I need to defend myself or if I need to push back on someone or question something that was wrong or stand firm on my ground on why I feel something is right?

I'm not dying on every hill anymore. And I think in my mind, I used to die on every hill. Everything was a big deal. Everything would be.

Even last week's example at our house, looking back at it even half an hour after it happened, I'm like, it's so insignificant in the big picture. My house didn't really…

Rebecca: I want to know what happened.

Mike: My house didn't burn down, you know, anything. It was pretty insignificant. It was just like one of those death by a thousand paper cuts.

Rebecca: Yeah.

Mike: Everything was happening all at once. But it's like, in the big scheme of things, when I looked at that, I'm like, if I had held on to that, I would have kind of ruined this evening with our friends.

Rebecca: Yeah.

Being Present Instead of Replaying It All Night

Mike: Like, I wouldn't have been present. I wouldn't have been able to enjoy it. The second we closed the door when they left, I immediately would have gone back to, I can't believe this happened.

By being able to let that go, I was able to enjoy the evening, laugh about it later. Whereas that would have been something that I would have held on to.

But on the flip side, if it was something that I'm like, wow, this is really an issue that needs to be dealt with, I think I would have been in a better headspace to, you know, like if it was after the party, like, okay, now we have this issue. Now we need to deal with this. Now is the time.

Or, hey, I need to talk to you about this.

You know, it's happened at work. There have been certain things now where I've been more apt to, once I can get my feelings out of it, to be like, hey, can we have another conversation? Because here's how I'm feeling about this, that, and the other. And here's what I think we should do.

And not doing that with everything. Doing it with the important things.

Presence, Focus, and the Lightness That Comes with Mental Control

Rebecca: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I wrote before you even said the word presence. It was the thing that I wrote down. You know, like when you're not in your head, you actually get to be where your body is at the same time. That's what I call presence, right? Your mind and your body are in the same place at the same time experiencing the same thing.

And so learning, like you really have gained so much more presence when you've learned to take back control of your mind ultimately and the stories that you're telling yourself.

And you also talked about focus as well and being able to go all in on the things that actually matter and really just let go of the things that don't. And that focus allows you to be more effective with your time, more productive, more aligned with goals and things like that. A lot more efficient on a lot of levels, right?

Things Don’t Feel So Heavy

And then really the lightness or the enjoyment. I could just hear it in your voice too. You know, things just don't feel as heavy, right? There's more of a smile. There's more of a genuine laughter and levity that comes when we're not stuck up here in our mind turning over things that have happened or making up stories about things that will happen, you know, either way.

So I love that. So good.

So we talked about, we've talked about the overdeveloped mechanism of validation, or in other words, self-validation. And this time we're talking about kind of getting out of your head and really taking back control of the way you're thinking about things and rumination and things like that. Two really big things that we worked on in coaching.

Is there, there doesn't have to be another one, but I just want to make sure. Is there another one that comes to mind that we haven't talked about here?

Mike: So we did a lot of talking about the pivot tools, the pivot cycle, which is kind of along the same lines of, you know, what we've been talking about. You know, like pivot was a big part of that and just having those, that, that toolbox and that I'm also one, you know, like, I love a process. I love to know the steps and the, in the instructions. You know, I'm the dad who, okay, let's read the instructions before we do the thing.

Rebecca: I am not that way, but I do like a good process.

“What Is Really Happening?” Learning to Pivot in the Moment

Mike: That simple thing to be like, okay, what is really happening? And I think that's kind of what I did last week with the thing at our house. I went through a pivot, and I'm like, okay, big scheme of things, all this is insignificant. It was just a hundred of them that all hit at the same time and kind of pushed me into frustration. It's all good. I can get out of this. Everything's still going to be fine.

And so that pivot process was a big one.

And I think, too, the kind of focusing on the transition protocol, I mean the work to home. So that was a big one. And we talked about this a little bit, but that was something that I never realized how important it was until when Covid hit and we were working from home.

Because before Covid we were five days in the office. So every single day I would get up, drive into work, and then drive home.

Rebecca: There was a natural transition. A natural transition from home to work and work to home.

Rebuilding the Work-to-Home Transition After COVID

Mike: Exactly. And then when Covid hit, it was like, okay, I'm done, close my computer, walk out the door. There are the kids, there are the dogs. There's everything that had to happen.

And I didn't realize for a while how important that time was. So I kind of put some things in place to make sure I had just a couple minutes to be before I go out. This is what I'm going to do.

And sometimes I would be really good at that, but other times I would forget about it, depending on what was going on.

So us talking through that was a great reminder of how important it was to be very intentional about that all the time.

The Exit Ramp Ritual: A Simple Transition Protocol

So I know I had mentioned in one of our sessions, there's an exit I have to take off the interstate before I get to downtown Peoria every morning. And so if I have music on or a podcast or whatever, when I hit that exit, that's my cue to turn that off.

And then from that exit to the parking deck is when I'm like, okay, this is going to be a great day today. This is what we're going to do. Whatever happened this morning is blah, blah, blah, or this. I just. It's kind of like my little pep talk.

And that's it. There's something about that. This is where I'm exiting off. It's kind of a natural thing to do.

And I try to do the same thing on the way home. When I exit off the interstate to my exit at home, to be like, okay, whatever happened at work today, we're just letting it go and this is going to be a great night.

And what do we have coming on and what do I need to be prepared for? What has happened at home that I'm going to have to address when I get home? But to get myself in a mindset.

So it's not a real formal thing that I do, but for me, it was that trigger of like, hey, you know what, the exit, the exit, those are the way. It's like when I'm exiting off the interstate, I'm exiting whatever happened in the morning to get to work. And the same thing on the way home.

Building Intentional Transitions: Getting Your Head and Heart in the Right Place

Rebecca: Yeah, I mean, for clients that don't have any clue what that is on some level, obviously I give you a step by step on that. On how do you build a good transition for yourself?

Because to your point, it really is just about intentionality more than anything.

It is about intentionally getting your head and your heart, your emotions if you will, into the right space, into a place that you want them to be instead of wherever they are on some level.

There's so many different ways you can do that, obviously, but it's not going to happen passively. It does require an element of focus and intentionality around what am I going to think about? How do I want to feel? What do I need to, you know, what's my plan? What are my next steps?

You know, I do that a lot with my kids these days on all sorts of levels. It's like, we've got four things to do. Everybody, okay, what order do you want to do these things in?

And you know, I do it for them in preparation, but I do it for myself too. Like, okay, we've got four things. That's right. We've got to do all these things tonight. And it's a little bit of vision casting, a little bit of preparation, a lot of intentionality in our mindset. And it makes everything go smoother when we do that.

Mike: Right? And it's funny, the more that I do it, the more I realize more often than not, I don't have as much to transition as maybe I thought I did in my head.

Like, I'll get off the exit ramp on my way to work this morning. I'm like, okay, it's going to be a great day. And then part of me is like, you know what? It's already been an okay morning. Nothing major happened. We got out the door. Everybody was where they needed to be on time. Like, hey, this is going to be good.

Or the same thing on the way home. It's like, you know what? Today wasn't a bad day, or today was pretty good, and it's all going to be great.

Eliminating the Triggers That Pulled Me Back Into Rumination

And I've tried to intentionally also do things like unless there's something super important and pressing, I'm not going to get on the phone on my way home. I'll shoot my wife a text message and be like, hey, I'm on my way, but I'm not going to get on the phone or I'm not going to call.

Because I would find sometimes I'd get on the phone and something would have happened at work, and it's like now I'm going to gripe about it all the way home. Then instead of transitioning, I'm going to be rehashing everything that happened.

And I have found a lot of times when I get home, I'm like, yeah, I'm not going to waste our time griping about this thing because it's insignificant. It doesn't matter.

So some of those little things for me, I found like getting on the phone sometimes with a parent or a friend or my wife or whatever would be a trigger because all I was doing is like, especially if I was coming off a really frustrating day, now I'm going to yell about everything that happened.

And so if I'm like, nope, I'm going to get in the car and I'm going to turn on music or I'm going to turn on my podcast, and I'm just going to coast for 15 minutes until I hit the exit and then be like, all right, it's all over again. It has helped so much.

You Control the Narrative

Rebecca: Yeah, I mean, we're talking about control on a lot of levels, right? Controlling the way you're thinking, the way you're feeling, taking back control of the stories you're telling yourself and what you're deciding to think about things and your perspective of things, right?

I remember pretty clearly we had this conversation a few different times in a few different ways. But you would come onto our call sometimes and just be like, oh man, it's just so busy. And it'd be like, is it? Or is that a story you're telling yourself? What is that exactly? Is that true? Like, is that what you want to tell yourself right now? How does it feel to think that you're this busy?

There was a lot of pushback of like, you get to control your narrative. You get to control the narrative of life, of what you've done, of your accomplishments, of your successes, of who you are, of all the things.

Like, you control the narrative.

And that feels like it's been a real through line for you over the course of our work together.

Mike: Yeah. And I think in that situation, you actually said, are you busy or is it your job? And there was. There were some times where I'm like.

Rebecca: Man, I can be a really. I can be kind of. You know, I don't know what I am. I'm not very nice all the time.

Is It Truly Busy or Just the Story I’m Telling?

Mike: And I remember that being like, no, I'm busy. Like, I was frustrated with that.

And then I thought about it, and I mean, there were times where I'm like, no, you know, she's right. That's just work. It's just normal work now.

There were some days where I was like, no, this is kind of crushing right now. Between work and everything that's going on at home, it's like, you know.

But there were other days, it's like, nope, this is just normal busy.

And so that has been a perspective shift, too. When I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so overwhelmed. I'm so busy. I'll be like, am I? Or is it?

And sometimes it genuinely is. And then I'm like, okay, what do I need to do to get control of it? And other times, like, nope, it's just work.

Rebecca: It's just work.

Mike: It just is what it is.

Rebecca: Yep, yep, yep. Yeah, I love that. So good. So you talked about the pivot protocol, which was like the six steps to kind of getting out of your head and into a different emotional space and those kinds of things. We've talked about the work to home transition as being another kind of key practice. Any other tools that you're finding yourself kind of leaning into that you learned over the course of our time together?

Mike: I mean, I do the Daily Kickstart. I will admit, I'm not as great about doing it every single day. I have it out on my desk so that I can hopefully remember, and I do it on the days. Some days you hit the door and it's like, whoa, there's already a message or I have a meeting or whatever, and the day will fly. By the time I get to it, I'm like.

But other times I will come in. I'm like, I don't have anything until 9 this morning. I'm going to do this. And so again, I consider that kind of a part of my transition.

Rebecca: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Using Preparation to Stay in Control

Mike: When I'm getting in in the morning, it's just kind of helping me set the stage. I think out of that, what I do at a bare minimum, if I can't really do the formal daily work, is I'm going to be like, all right, what do I really have? Like, what does my day hold for me? And I'm going to open my calendar and I'm going to look ahead to everything that I have. What is it that I have to do?

Because again, for me, it gives me a sense of control as opposed to like, I'm running and all of a sudden it's like 15 minutes. What is this meeting? I'm not ready for the. You know. I'm looking ahead and I'm trying to take the time to prep for my day and follow up with people and do I have messages and do I have things so that I can kind of stay in control.

Because I find that's the part where I get the most easily frustrated or overwhelmed, is if I am suddenly feeling like I'm not in control of what's happening or that I can't help. Because my role is naturally a helper role. Like I'm there training new people, supporting people with other things. So there's a lot I can't control in my day because you don't know when a problem is going to come up that somebody's going to need you for.

So the more I can have control over the things I do have control over, I find for me it makes it easier to be present and able to help when somebody comes to my door or sends me a Teams message or an email about support that they need. Knowing like, hey, I can't help you right now in this moment because I have this thing. But give me an hour and then let's sit down and do it or whatever. And those type of things, that preparation, that looking ahead, I don't know, it’s…

Rebecca: It's what the daily work is really about. Right. 

Mike: Yeah.

Rebecca: And I mean, I rebranded it. It's called the Daily Kickstart. And just for any listener out there, you have access to that. There's a link in the show notes. I do give that one away for free because of what you're talking about, Mike.

It really is a way of getting ahead of some of the swirl of the day and the craze of the day and the thoughts throughout the day that make us overwhelmed and stressed and all of the things, right?

It's such an anchor practice if you can make it a habit.

The Power of a Shorter “Must Do Today” List

Mike: When I think out of that conversation that you and I had, one of the things that you suggested, which to me was such a palm to the forehead, like, that's so easy. But I'm, you know, I think I held up my to do list one day. I'm like, oh my gosh, all this stuff keeps adding to it. And you're like, then make a shorter list of what you have to do today.

Like, this is everything you have to do in perpetuity, you know, like all the things that are coming. But what do you have to do today?

And that was such a like, yeah, obviously, why did I not do that?

Chipping Away Instead of Running Around on Fire

And so when I have found days that are like, this is going to be a really busy day, there's a ton going on or whatever, I will look through and be like, what are the hot items that must be done today because of a timeliness factor? Or if I can accomplish these three or four things today, I'm going to feel like I did something other than kind of run around on fire all day.

And that has helped a lot, too. Especially in these weeks leading up to being off for the holiday, you know, there's a lot of time out of the office. I've been really trying to focus on what are the things, because if I can chip away at this list a little bit at a time, I can leave for the holidays being like, yes, this stuff is done. And I'm not going to walk back in the office in January with all these December items that I didn't get done.

So trying to chip away. And then there are some days I get to the end of the day and it's like, hey, I did all those things and I still have an hour left in the day. What else can I knock out before I go home? And I'm watching that list dwindle.

So that kind of was an offshoot of the Daily, but it was such a duh moment for me, like, why did I not think of that?

Rebecca: Oh no. We are creatures of habit, right? So this is just what, you know, nobody's ever taught us really effective time management. Wouldn't that be a great high school class? Like, it should be a high school or college class for sure. On how to effectively manage your time, organize yourself, all the things. I'm sure there are some schools that.

Teaching the Balanced Mindset

Mike: I've used some of this stuff with my daughter, you know, when she's like, oh my gosh, I've got so much homework and tests and all these things. I'm like, okay, well, what do you have to get done tonight?

Because she's very much like me in that she's like, here's my entire to do list of 28 things that have to happen by the weekend. And I'm like, but what has to happen by tomorrow, right? You know, it's Tuesday night. What do you have to do by Wednesday?

And she'll be like, yeah, these two things. I'm like, okay, focus on those two things, get them done, and then go from there.

And I'm like, these are the things I learned. These are the things I have to do. So I'm trying to instill some of that in her because she's very much like I am in that way. It's like, here's my list, and it's just getting longer and longer and longer. But it's like, yeah, this is due in a month. Let's not worry about that right now.

“I Wanted to Quit… But I’m So Glad I Didn’t”

Rebecca: Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Well, we need to wrap up this time. I feel like we could chat for a long time. There was just so much that you learned and grew, and you stuck with it even when it got hard. I remember reading in your midway evaluation, you were like, I'm going to be honest, Rebecca, I wanted to quit on you midway, but I'm so glad I didn't. And what are your thoughts now, Mike?

If It’s Not Hard, What’s the Point?

Mike: No, I'm glad that I didn't. And that was one of those things that like, it was hard. And in retrospect, I'm like, well, it should be hard. If it's not hard, what's the point? Then you don't really need coaching. You're not a candidate for it. It should be hard work. And I think it was hard work.

Rebecca: We arehanging habits here. We're changing behaviors, like this practice and time and pushback and all the things.

It Was Harder Than I Thought — And That’s Why It Worked

Mike: It was a lot harder than I anticipated it being. It was a lot more work and kind of self reflection on it and a lot of habit changing. And there was a lot of like, I don't like what I'm hearing, but I shouldn't like everything that I'm hearing.

There were just some tough things that I had to accept and realize, like, nope, this is me and she's right and this is what I need to do.

So I am glad I stuck with it because I do think I came out the other end with tools and habits that I'm putting into place. It will be continual. I will continue to work on it.

But I will have these tools and things that will help me pivot. And we're never going to be perfect, but if we can seek the tools to help us be better, then I think it's worth the time and the work that was put into it.

Rebecca: Yeah, I mean, if you're looking for a coach that's going to push you, that's not going to let you settle, that's going to hold those goals and hold that mirror up in the ways that you need so that you move forward, I mean, I'm your gal.

Coaching Is Like Exercise: Hard in the Moment, Worth It in the End

Mike: Yeah, it's like exercise. Nobody ever really wants to do it, but you always feel better once you've done it. And sometimes in the middle, it can be hard and you can just want to be like, I'm done. But if you finish your workout or finish your run or finish whatever it is you're doing, at the end you're always like, oh, I feel better.

And this is what it was like with that. Even there were sessions, there were days where I'm like, I'm not in the mood for this today. I've got other things to do or whatever. I would finish it and I'm like, this was perfect timing that I had this, that we were able to talk through this.

And then when we wrapped up the final session, I'm like, no, I really did learn a lot. Flipping through the workbook and looking back at some of the things we did, I think overall it was just such a positive experience. And I would, you know, I've encouraged others here at Samantha to do it. I would encourage anybody listening, moms or dads, it's worth the time as long as you're willing to do the work and be open to the experience.

Wrapping Up: Sharing the Male Perspective on Coaching

Rebecca: Yeah, I love that. Well, thank you again, Mike, for being here, for sharing your wisdom, for being the first man. You know, I love it. And I really wanted you to come on just because I haven't shared much of the male perspective on this in terms of working with me and working in coaching and all of the things. And I just appreciate your honesty and your willingness to share your story, of course.

Mike: Thank you so much for having me. And again, thank you for everything that we worked through and for the time over the last six, eight months.

The Next Steps

Rebecca: Yeah, yeah. Such a pleasure. Of course, of course.

So if you are, I mean there's so many kind of next steps for you here. Maybe you're in a company that would be interested in sponsoring something like coaching. Obviously, that's, please reach out. Let's have a conversation around that.

We talked about the Daily Kickstart here today. There is a link in the show notes for you to download that same exact exercise that I walked Mike through. I walk all my clients through it. It teaches you exactly how to do it. You follow along with a 10-minute video where I walk you step by step. So it's a great practice for you as well.

And so much to come here in the new year. So follow along. And until next week, let's get to it.

Start Your Day Calm, Clear, and In Control With the Daily Kickstart

If you wake up most days spinning with a hundred different priorities vying for your attention, then the Daily Kickstart is exactly what you need. It's a simple, six-step process that helps you get your thoughts out of your head, reset your mindset, and refocus on what actually matters.

It's designed to help shift you out of overwhelm and into calm, confident action before the chaos. This daily practice is the same tool I offer to all my clients, and it's going to show you exactly how to lead your day instead of react to it.

It takes just 10 minutes a day, and the impact will ripple through everything—your mood, your energy, your presence with your kids, and how you lead at work. My clients indicate time and time again that this tool was the one that made the biggest impact difference for them, and I'm offering it to you totally free.

You can download it by going to www.ambitiousandbalanced.com/daily-kickstart, and of course, I'll have that for you in the show notes as well.

All right, working moms, let's get to it.

Rebecca Olson