Sleep Isn’t Optional: Expert Tips for Prioritizing Rest with Terry Cralle

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In this week’s episode of the podcast, I’m joined by sleep expert Terry Cralle to talk about why sleep isn’t a luxury - it’s a biological necessity. If you’ve ever pushed bedtime later just to get one more thing done, this conversation is going to challenge everything you thought you knew about productivity, ambition, and rest. Terry and I dive into the science of sleep, the myths we’ve believed about functioning on less, and practical ways to finally make sleep a true priority in your life. 

Topics in this episode:

  • Why 99% of adults need 7–9 hours of sleep—and what really happens when we cut corners 

  • How sleep deprivation impacts mood, decision-making, productivity, and long-term health 

  • Simple, practical sleep hygiene habits 

  • Why ambitious women in particular struggle with racing minds at night—and how to calm them 

  • Reframing sleep as the ultimate productivity tool (not a guilty pleasure)  

Show Notes & References:  

Connect with Terry:

Transcript

Intro

Most of us treat sleep like it's a nice-to-have instead of what it really is, a biological need. We push bedtimes later and later so that we can squeeze in more emails, finish another load of laundry, or, you know, just catch up for the day.

But the truth is, every time we sacrifice sleep, we put ourselves in a chronic state of being tired. And we're so used to it that we've convinced ourselves we're fine when we're really living far below our potential.

In this episode, I talk with sleep expert Terry Cralle about why better sleep isn't optional. It's the foundation of more productivity, sharper decision-making, better moods, and even long-term health.

If you've ever stayed up late to, you know, just get one more thing done, then this conversation is for you. Are you ready? Let's get to it.

Welcome to the Ambitious and Balanced Working Moms podcast, your go to resource for integrating your career ambitions with life as a mom, I'm distilling down thousands of coaching conversations I've had with working moms just like you, along with my own personal experience as a mom of two and sharing the most effective tools and strategies to help you quickly feel calm, confident, and in control of your ambitious working mom life. You ready? Let's get to it.

"Sleep Is Not Optional — It’s Essential for Working Moms"

Rebecca: Hello, working moms. I am so excited for this particular episode today because literally, Terry and I have tried over three times to record this episode. With so many technology challenges, multiple days, I can't even tell you. And she's still here with us because this is such an important topic. I'm really, really excited to introduce you to Terry Cralle. She's a sleep expert. We're going to have a whole episode talking about the importance of sleep. But why don't you introduce yourself for us, Terry?

Terry: Rebecca, it's a pleasure to be here. I am Terry Cralle. I am a registered nurse. I've been in the field of sleep medicine for a very long time, and I work with the Better Sleep Council. I try very hard to get the word out about the importance of good sleep.

"The Common Solution for Ambitious Women: Sacrificing Sleep"

Rebecca: I love it. I'm so excited to have this conversation. I've told you now a few times, but I'm going to say it again. I can't tell you how often this conversation has come up, particularly recently with a lot of my clients.

So it just feels timely that we're having this particular conversation around sleep, because I think the way it tends to get framed to me — and my clients tend to be fairly ambitious, they're career-driven, they're goal-focused, they're type A, they've got lots of lists, they want to check them all — I mean that's the kind of mindset and the kind of people that listen to this podcast and that I work with.

And there's this sort of solution that we tend to have as hardworking women — that the best thing to do to get more done is to just sacrifice our sleep. And it's like a no-brainer. It's like, "Oh well, I'll just push my bedtime back."

Right? That's our common solution to that feeling of not getting enough done or feeling behind or all of the things. And so I'm curious what you hear a lot around this as well.

"We’ve Glorified Sleep Deprivation — But It’s Hurting Us"

Terry: I mean, unfortunately, you're right, and we have on some level glorified sleep deprivation in terms of characterizing it as someone with work ethic, someone as ambitious. What are they going to do? They're going to cut back on sleep to get more done.

Unfortunately, that's the wrong thing to do. When we get that seven to nine hours that adults need every single night — or day, depending on when you work and how you work — we do better. We get more done, much more done, when we get sleep.

So I know that seems a little counterintuitive at first glance, but it is actually how it works. Our bodies and our brains work so much better with that sleep. So we're actually not wasting time, we're not doing things over and over, and we're not making as many mistakes.

We're healthier, we're happier, we're more energetic. We actually have more motivation, we have more creativity, we're able to think outside the box, we're able to problem solve when we get that sleep. So we have to sort of change the way we look at it and say, no, reframe. This is a means to success and achievement and getting the best and being our best and getting the most out of life.

"When Kids Are Tired, We See It — Why Don’t We See It in Ourselves?"

Rebecca: It's reminding me a lot… you know, I have an 8- and 11-year-old, but when they're tired, particularly the 8-year-old, wow. I mean, it is — he's a mess.

But if I even think back to toddler years, when our kids… we have an ability to see when our kids are tired, right? And they are a mess. They are hangry, they are throwing themselves all over the place, they are tantruming, they are resistant, they are… it takes infinitely longer to get anything done, right?

When our kids are tired, we can see it in them and we know how important it is that they get to sleep on time and they develop those sleep habits. But we have been — we’ve just conditioned ourselves to cover it up and to think that we're functioning when we're not really functioning at our best.

Of course, we're alive and we can do some things, but we're really not living our optimized life. We're just not. But we've conditioned ourselves to think that we are.

Sleep Deprivation Disguised as Excuses

Terry: Well, what you just described happens to us as well. But we'll blame it on other things and we'll rationalize it as, “Well, I'm getting older, I've got this going on, and the kids are driving me crazy.”

And you know, it's all these excuses when actually it is sleep deprivation. And again, we don't have that self-awareness. We don't have insight as to what our problem is and how poorly we're performing. We don't get it. There's no self-awareness.

It's that prefrontal cortex — it's completely negatively impacted by a lack of sleep. So the awareness isn't there. And therefore, we're going to make excuses and we never get back to really what the true root cause is: a lack of sleep, to a lot of problems we're having.

"Why the Prefrontal Cortex Needs Sleep"

Rebecca: Yeah. And for those that don't know, that prefrontal cortex — which, there's a couple different pieces of our mind, right — but that's the one that, when it functions at its best, it helps us problem solve, it helps us think strategically, it helps us make decisions that are aligned with values, morals, ethics, all the things.

It is the part of our brain that helps us see perspective, that's able to control our emotional responses. Right? That's our prefrontal cortex.

And when we're sleep deprived, we have basically just inhibited our ability to do any of those things at an optimal level. Right.

Terry: But the problem is we think we're fine.

Rebecca: Yeah, we think we're fine, exactly.

We Track Calories and Steps — Why Not Sleep?

Terry: That's the twist. But there's just… you know, if you stop and go, “Okay, no, I'm okay,” but we're not, and we don't see it. We've got to learn to see it in ourselves and in others.

And if we can't see it, you know, we track calories, we track our steps. We really should be tracking our sleep. Maybe a very few, few of us may say, “Oh, well, it leads to more stress about sleep.” That's a tiny number. I don't think that should be a thing for more people not to track sleep.

We really need that seven to nine hours. Less than 1% of the population are true short sleepers.

Rebecca: Which would be less than seven hours.

Terry: Oh yeah, five or six. They do okay. Less than 1% genetic variant. Chances are you don't have it.

99% of Adults Need 7+ Hours of Sleep

Rebecca: So hold on, let me just reframe that. Research has shown time and time again that 99% of adults need seven hours or more of sleep in order to highly function and live their optimized life.

Terry: Exactly. And to be healthy and to — I mean, be a healthy weight, be healthy in terms of… I mean, sleep affects us on a cellular level. Everything is impacted and affected by sleep.

Sleep Repairs the Brain, Screens Interrupt It

Terry: I mean, think of the way we've tied sleep deprivation, associated that with cognitive problems later in life, dementia. It helps in clearing out waste in our brains. I mean, there's all these amazing things that go on during the night. We do a lot of repairing, restoring, and we have to have it.

We talk about these mental health problems that are plaguing our kids as well as adults. But we've seen a lot — the increase in screen time with an increase in the mental health problems — because of that drop in sleep time and not getting the sleep we need.

So we really need to learn to swap out. I say, swap the plugs for pages at night. Get rid of those electronics at least an hour before bed. I'm not saying the electronics are never gonna leave — they're here to stay. We have to learn to coexist. We can enjoy that, but we have to learn how to do it healthy.

Sleep Has to Be a Top Priority

Rebecca: We know now how screens have a massive effect on our ability to get to sleep, which is a whole other conversation we can have. And we're not gonna have a lot of time to get into it.

But it's like, how do you help? What are the mechanisms to help you get to sleep, stay asleep? Like, we can talk a little bit about some of those tools. But the point actually is that if you don't believe that sleep in and of itself is an important goal for you and it should be something that's prioritized, then none of that matters in the end.

It has to start with recognizing this is a top priority. I like to tell people, rest — and in this case, sleep — is a productivity tool. You are more efficient with your time, which means that you're gonna get more things done. The things that you do get done are at a higher level. So your quality goes up when you are at your best.

Why We Work Better When Rested

Rebecca: It's why a lot of us say, you know, particularly, I would say most of us would say morning times tend to be a more highly functioning time where, you know, we operate at our best. Not for everybody — some people do afternoons and so forth. But we all kind of have a time that we know that we optimally work. It's because we're the most rested during that time. Right? And our brains are functioning in that way.

The Basics of Sleep Hygiene Matter

Terry: Yeah. And I think we have to just take some steps. They're not huge steps, but look at even the simple things. I talked to someone over the weekend who said their mattress was 36 years old, and they were talking about sleep problems. They didn't make any connection.

That happened to come in the conversation because I know how to elicit some information. And sure enough, I'm thinking, Okay, that's square one for a good night's sleep.

Darkness Is Essential for Better Sleep

Terry: And I was literally talking to a consultant today. We've got a huge book project we're in the works for — children of different ages, a series. And one of my consultants said something… we were talking about fear of the dark with little kids.

And she said — kind of laughing — “Well, I have to keep the hall light on and my door wide open.” And she said, “It lets in a lot of light at night.”

And I said, “But we need the dark to sleep better.” And she's like, “Who knew?” And I said, “You will sleep better with a dark environment.”

I mean, there's some real basic sleep hygiene things that I think people have to just learn about and practice. And I think they'll be amazed at how much better their sleep quality is and how it impacts their sleep, and how that impact of good sleep affects every day.

When we have a good night of sleep and you wake up and you feel fabulous… we should make that a daily goal. And we should be very proactive in getting that.

Sleep Is Not a Luxury — It’s a Biological Necessity

Rebecca: We should wear that as a badge of honor — “I got eight hours of sleep last night. Look at me. I'm going to be on it today. Everybody's going to want me in their meeting today because I'm on it.”

Terry: See? And that's how we should be because we're so much better with that. So we have to be more vocal, more proactive, unapologetic. And look at it — it's not a luxury. It's a biological necessity.

Just like I stay hydrated through the day. I would never brag about not drinking water, you know, and things like that.

Rebecca: It's ridiculous.

Terry: It is ridiculous. But so is saying, “I don't need sleep” or “I've learned to get by on less.” And by the way, so many people tell me that they've adjusted. There is no adjusting to getting less sleep than you need. It doesn't work that way.

The Real Sleep Struggles for Ambitious Women

Rebecca: Your body and your brain needs it, absolutely. You know, I mean, I have no doubt — mattress, you know, it should be darker in your room, things like that. We can go on and on about some of those tips.

But the conversation I have with clients time and time again is: number one, getting to bed on time. Number two, when they lay their head on their pillow, actually getting to sleep with their mind not racing. That's my hardest one, to be honest. That's when my brain starts to problem solve, you know, for lots of things.

And then, or — waking up in the middle of the night and staying asleep, like the 2am wake up and then trying to get back to sleep at that time. Those are the ones that are hardest, I think, for ambitious women, because our minds are racing during that time. Our minds are trying to sort some things out. Our minds are trying to check off lists. They're worried about the things that we haven't done. They're worried about the people around us. They're worried their kids are gonna wake up. They're worried and there's anxiety and they feel behind. And this is when it kind of catches up to them.

And I'm curious what some of your thoughts are on how we can help women get to sleep and stay asleep.

Brain Dumps Help Quiet a Racing Mind

Terry: Okay. One of the most important things you can do is do a brain dump at the end of the workday. Write down everything you're worried about, you need to do, you didn't do. You've got to address all those things.

And I would say put it on paper. Just the act of writing it out — and I will tell you, Rebecca, it will look more manageable, oddly enough, if you've got it written down. And there's a little bit of research on it too. So I would really advise people do that. Get it on a piece of paper, it's done.

Why Adults Need Bedtime Routines Too

Terry: At night, I would think about things that we do with our kids. Bedtime routine is essential. Bedtime routine helps transition our minds and our bodies from wakefulness to sleep a lot of times.

And think of what we do with children. We do the same things and the same steps. That repetition is important, the consistency of the timing is important. But also, we do bedtime stories with kids.

What about adults? Distraction is great. You can listen to a book on tape — something that's boring, not exciting, preferably something you've listened to before. Non-engaging nonfiction.

Why Dopamine Hits Keep You Awake

Rebecca: Things that don't give you dopamine hits — like watching shows, playing games. These things are designed to keep you stimulated and awake. You can't play those right before bed.

Terry: Exactly. Not only just the light, but the content as well is very stimulating. So do something distracting, do something boring, do something relaxing.

We always tell our insomnia patients, we never tell anyone to try to sleep. If you're relaxed, sleep will follow. And I think you have to have those affirmations also: “I'll fall asleep. Just relax.”

If you're not asleep in 20 minutes, get out of bed, do something. I talked to a sleep doctor once who told me he had a jigsaw puzzle in his room with a nice comfy chair. He’d go in, very dim lighting, work on the jigsaw puzzle until he felt super sleepy, and then go back to bed.

If you wake up in the middle of the night, avoid the bright lights. Don't pick up your phone because in a second you're going to start looking at that last email, etc.

Your Brain Chemistry at 2am Is Different

Rebecca: Your brain is just going…

Terry: Yeah you have a much different brain chemistry in the middle of the night. Don't believe it. Know that it's different. And what's going to seem okay in the morning is not okay at 2 or 3am.

So you have to say, “I'm not… no. I’m going to relax. Sleep will follow.”

Simple Tricks to Fall Back Asleep

And there's a couple of brain games you can play. I've heard people say they take their favorite movie, play it backwards in their mind. Or they do lists — all the vegetables that start with “A.” Just do dumb things like that. But have faith that you'll relax and fall asleep.

When we start getting nervous about it, it's normal to wake up — and you have to remember that. It's definitely normal to wake up.

But if you're on a comfortable sleep surface in a dark room, chances are you'll fall right back to sleep. If you get up to use the restroom, I think the extra step is just, you know, back in bed. If your sleep environment is optimal — and it's dark, cool, quiet — chances are you'll go back to sleep. So you have to have faith.

Breaking the Cycle of Poor Sleep

Rebecca: Yeah. I will be super honest that I have been in a pretty bad sleep cycle myself lately, and that's not usual for me. So it's been somewhat unusual that I've been in this state. And it could be lots of reasons, but you know, certainly work life has picked up and there's stress involved in all of that.

But coming back to your very first thing you said — a brain dump. I call that like a thought download. I've done a version of that right before I go to bed in a journal where I actually just talk to myself about the anxiety that I'm feeling in that moment. Like the things that are on my mind.

How Thought Downloads Quiet Anxiety Before Bed

I'll literally just say, “Hey, what's up Rebecca?” and then I'll just start answering my own questions in this sort of dialogue with myself. And it's interesting to see the kind of anxious thoughts that tend to come up for me — and things sometimes I wouldn't even realize were kind of deep down there in my head.

That would have probably surfaced as I slept. And then usually there's a natural transition of like, “So what are we gonna do about this? Or what’s really going to calm us down here, Rebecca?” as I have this conversation.

And something always comes up. But to your point, the act of getting out of your head the things that are going on so that your conscious brain can look at that list and actually feel like it can have some control over it — right, like it can see the whole picture.

It's really amazing how just that act alone can soften our minds, clear our minds, and release the worries that tend to keep a lot of women awake.

Treasure Middle-of-the-Night Aha Moments

Terry: Yeah. And I definitely, I like the point of keeping a journal or something paper and anything at bedside because you're going to have aha moments in the middle of the night. And I would treasure those.

I mean, think of when Paul McCartney came up with the melody for Yesterday in the middle of the night. Several movie themes have been born out of those aha moments too. So keep something to write on.

And instead of looking at these wake-ups as, “Oh my God, this is horrible,” and turning everything into a catastrophe, just say, “Okay, I woke up, it's cool. This was on my mind.”

Mindset Matters: End the Day with Gratitude

I do like thinking about the mindset right before bedtime. There's something I always recommend for parents to do with children: name the three best things that happened to you today. Always the three good things.

That positivity starts to be associated with going to bed and sleeping. So again, the mindset is really important. The gratitude journals — I had three wonderful things happen, write them down.

Think of how cool that would be when your kids are in their twenties and you've been writing down the three great things of their days for years.

Rebecca: How fun. Yeah.

Terry: But it's also the mindset. So we do have to, I think, spend… I think there are things to skirt that worry.

Choosing Sleep Over “One More Thing”

Rebecca: Be a lot more intentional is what I'm hearing. Yes. In the same way that a lot of us are with our kids — and we actually know how to do that — we just need to translate that to us and see the value in it for us.

And value it more than checking one more thing off the list tonight. Or value it more than doom scrolling. Or value it more. We have to see it as valuable. We need to see it as a priority. We need to see what we gain from it.

Right? And start to really overcome that. It's a tough moment where you have to overcome the urge to log back on, or overcome the urge to scroll something, or overcome the urge to quickly clean up around the house.

Like that's literally what's happening — you're overcoming an urge, you're overcoming a feeling. Because sleep is a biological necessity. It's gonna create more productivity, more efficiency, more quality work, more everything. Right? More happiness, more joy, more problem solving, less disease later in life.

All the things that we somewhat know — but we have to make a really conscious decision that this is the priority.

Sleep Is the Ultimate Productivity Tool

Terry: I mean, I think some of us know that, but I also think far too many people that I run into think they can cheat it and that they're able to do it for less.

But I think once you realize what goes on — and I think, you know, what we've learned with the children and learning problems, inability to focus in school — I mean, still that applies to us as well as adults and how we function in our jobs, in our relationships, in every aspect, and how we are as parents.

So we have to look at it and say, this is actually in a sense productive time. This is the ultimate me time. And you know, there's no scrolling, there's no chores, nothing you can do at night equates to the stuff that's going on up here. That's of the utmost importance.

And I think we have to — once we see it that way and start reaping the benefits — when we talk about starting to get that sleep, say for two to three weeks… sometimes people have been so chronically sleep deprived, it may take more like four weeks. But once people get it, then they get it.

Rebecca: Don't take our word for it. Just give yourself a three-week experiment and let's just see what would happen if you did it for three weeks and find out what the benefits are for you. Absolutely.

Experiment With Sleep and See the Benefits

Terry: Oh yeah. And people will say, “Oh, Terry, I'm so much more organized. I do get more done,” and you know, all this great stuff. So I think take advantage.

I've got a — someone was telling me about bedtime stories. They have bedtime stories for adults. Very distracting, you know, entertaining enough but kind of relaxing to listen to at night before bed.

I mean, think — whatever works for you, whatever works for you. But just make it work and don't fight it.

Wrapping Up the Sleep Conversation

Rebecca: There's just so much we could talk about here. Unfortunately, we have to close out this interview now. Maybe I'll have you back and we'll explore some other elements of sleep at some point in the future.

I actually was just thinking I did an episode a while back that was called REST as the Number One Productivity Tool. So I'll link to that in the show notes. But how about for you, Terry — listeners that are interested in your work, interested in learning more about sleep or getting more sleep — how could they be connected to you and your work?

Where to Find Terry Cralle and Her Work

Terry: Sure, go to the Better Sleep Council website. It's bettersleep.org. We've got lots of great things on that website, and I am on X as The Power of Sleep — because it is, it's a wonderful power to have. And I do post what's the latest in sleep research most every day. So that's a great way to stay on top of things.

Rebecca: What was that again? Remind me.

Terry: Power of Sleep on X.

Rebecca: Got it. I love it.

A Final Thank You

Rebecca: All right, well, thank you so much, Terry, for being here. Thank you for taking the time, for pushing through despite I don't know how many times we attempted to do this episode. But I know how important this topic is, and I just know that women — as you hear this episode — I pray you take away one thing from it that is important to you.

Something that's either going to help you get better sleep, prioritize sleep, or reframe sleep into something that is really important and beneficial to you. So thank you again, Terry.

Terry: Thanks, Rebecca.

Rebecca: Until next week. Let's get to it.

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All right, working moms, let's get to it.

Rebecca Olson